"off brand"

[emerson]

Just Googled ----"Off Brand" talking machines by--Wakeman. When I scrolled down, there is an ad from Klise manufacturing, Michigan with wood products they produced. Looks like Columbia and Brunswick designs. I believe they are still in business, don't know if they still have the old patterns. Anybody ever contact or do business with them?

[Curt A]

Looking at their website, it appears they have quite a selection of fancy mouldings, which might come in handy for restorations...

http://www.klisemfg.com/pdfs/klise_stoc ... ldings.pdf

[howardpgh]

Where is the line drawn between "Brand" and "Off Brand"?

[emerson]

Hello, my feelings as Brand----company that made their own complete machines as/to Off Brand, a company purchased components----cabinet, motor, tonearm, etc and assembled them with their name as the product.

[52089]

Hello, my feelings as Brand----company that made their own complete machines as/to Off Brand, a company purchased components----cabinet, motor, tonearm, etc and assembled them with their name as the product.

There is at least one whole thread on this board devoted to that topic already.

I don't think there's any quarrel about Victor, Columbia, and Edison being "brand", but beyond that there is disagreement. I personally think it's more like 3 tiers - major brand (as above), secondary brand, and off-brand. I would put Brunswick, Pathé, Silvertone, Cheney, and maybe a few others as "secondary", and most of the other companies that arrived after the expiration of the major patents as "off-brand". Again, this is highly subjective.

One of my personal favorite machines is an "off-brand", an early portable made by the Outing company of Mt. Kisco, NY. My sister gave it to me as a birthday present when I was in my teens and it was my primary disc player for many years.

[Jerry B.]

The big three were Victor, Edison, and Columbia. I believe for a time, Brunswick sales equalled or surpassed Columbia's. I would draw the line after those four. The term "off brand" should not be taken negatively. There are some wonderful and interesting off brand machines such as Puritan, Sonora, Modernola, Keen-O-Phone, and many others. You could build a very interesting collection buying quirky off brand machines. Jerry Blais

[emerson]

Hello, my feelings as Brand----company that made their own complete machines as/to Off Brand, a company purchased components----cabinet, motor, tonearm, etc and assembled them with their name as the product.

There is at least one whole thread on this board devoted to that topic already.

I don't think there's any quarrel about Victor, Columbia, and Edison being "brand", but beyond that there is disagreement. I personally think it's more like 3 tiers - major brand (as above), secondary brand, and off-brand. I would put Brunswick, Pathé, Silvertone, Cheney, and maybe a few others as "secondary", and most of the other companies that arrived after the expiration of the major patents as "off-brand". Again, this is highly subjective.

One of my personal favorite machines is an "off-brand", an early portable made by the Outing company of Mt. Kisco, NY. My sister gave it to me as a birthday present when I was in my teens and it was my primary disc player for many years.

[estott]

There's also the matter of where you put something like Silvertone. You may not think of them as a major brand but they were. Sears didn't build the machines themselves but they ordered cabinets from makers like Pooley to their own specifications. Silvertone tone arms were also made specifically for the make. This puts them a step ahead of Montgomery Ward's Cecelian line which did use stock components.

[rockisland1913]

Outing, that was put together 15 miles from here in Mt Kisco NY. They must have sold a lot of them locally back in the 20's as I have so far found at least four of them, plus a later style Outing with the fabric cover and fold away tome arm.