Did Edisonic Schubert machines ever have needle cups?

[fran604g]

Hi,
I agree this was probably not made but they were looking at the possibility. It is possible a proof of concept experimental device was produced. the experimental device of course would probably not have looked exactly like the drawing depicts.
All the best to you Fran and all others that are interested,
Allen

Hi Allen,

I dredged up this very interesting old post from Greg Bogantz, and it is a bit illuminating in regard to the Eaton Patent, unless I'm mistaken.

This is the body of text included in his post (which can be read in its entirety via the link beneath it):

I own a C-2 and C-4 and I have heard a C-1. As Valecnik stated, the C-1 and C-2 are the only models that were designed to play both vertical DDs (not recommended for Pathé Sapphire records due to the small stylus size) and lateral needle cut records.

The phono pickup uses a unique stylus bar that holds the typical Edison diamond point for DD playback. And there is also a needle chuck with set screw that holds a steel needle for lateral record playback.

The sound is typical of 1928 model radios and electric phonos. With the exception that the C-1 and C-2 also included a "scratch filter" circuit which cannot be switched out (without an internal wiring change) when playing records. Edison propaganda stated that this was included to clean up the noise from lateral records, but the DDs actually sound noisier than laterals of the period due to the inherently lower signal to noise (S/N) ratio of the DDs. Consequently, the C-2 has a tubby and boomy sound with poor treble when playing records compared with, say, a Victor RE-45 or RE-75 from 1929. I, too, recommend using modern playback equipment for getting the full sound out of electrically recorded DDs and laterals. And such equipment will inflict very little damage to your records. But if you want the authentic sound of playing an electric Edison DD on period equipment, your only choice is an Edison C-1 or C-2. No other consumer electronic record players were sold in the USA that play vertical recordings (maybe there were some european models I'm not aware of). There was some professional equipment sold for vertical record playback in this period, notably from Western Electric. But the WE records were made with a different groove shape and size from that used in the DDs, so the WE vertical pickups probably won't work well with the Edison DDs.

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 1012#p1012

Best,
Fran

[A Ford 1]

Hi Fran,
I think the C-1,2,3,&4 all used a pickup that looked like the one shown on page 181 of Frow. There may be someone out there that has a C-1 or 2 that can send in a comment or photo. Also when I speak with a friend of mine I will ask him since he has rebuilt one or more of them he should know. He also rebuilds electronics potted in the tar or what ever it is that my radiola 28 electronics are potted in. Look at page 181 of Frow and you will see that the magnet is 90 degrees from that of the one in the patent.
Allen

[fran604g]

Ah, I see your point! In the Eaton Patent, he pickup head must be positioned in one of two alternate manners to use for each record format, as opposed to the pickup head that is actually found on the Edison Radio-Phonograph Combinations, in which is always in the same orientation for playing either format - as shown in Frow's book on page 181.

In the Eaton Patent, the pickup head is attached to a hinged flange (no. 45) that in turn is mounted to the forward most part of the "goose-neck", allowing for 90 degree rotation of the head.

Huh, isn't that interesting.

According to Frow, I might add, is that the C-1 and C-2 were capable of playing "...all types of hill-and-dale and needle-cut records, and was designed by Charles Edison.", whereas the C-4 was capable of playing only needle-cut records.

So, my question still remains: I wonder if the Eaton device is one of the "other two" designs quoted by the Pacent Company, that I mentioned in my previous post (shown below in blue)?

Hi all,
No one talked about the electric pickup, the last post on page one of this post by Fran, as being apparently for both hill a dale (stylus 41) and vertical (stylus 40). This would allow an older acoustic Edison to play both 78 rpm records and Diamond Discs electrically through a radio. It also has the magnet oriented 90 degrees perpendicular to that of the magnets in the Edison radio-phonograph that I have seen pictured on page 181 of Frow!Allen

In speaking directly to your post, Frow also states on pg. 87, that the Pacent Company had provided quotes on two types of magnetic pick-ups. I wonder if one of them is the version included with Eaton's Patent I provided in the previous post?
Best,Fran

Originally the intent of my post of the Eaton Patent was to bring attention to the "Goose-neck" portion of the invention because of the pivotal joint and general design configuration of his tonearm "adapter" construction, and how it might provide some possible insight to the origin of the adapter shown by Marc in the 3rd post of this thread.

Now, of course I was talking about it being used for an accoustic sound reproducing device, but now we've progressed into the realm of an electrical one.

Best,
Fran