Who are we? C'mon--voice an opinion

[bob27556]

It looks like many of us are a blend. My guess is I'm 60% mechanic, 25% culturalist and 15% collector. Arts and crafts run in my family but the artistic talent escaped me however I enjoy mechanical and woodwork. That was me selling the 'Dust Bugs' for Victrola sound boxes on Ebay back around 05. I had seen an original on Ebay and thought, I can do better than that! If any of you have one of these I'd appreciate any feedback whether positive or negative. Culturalist because of the historical insight gained from the content of the records. I've heard pro war and anti war records from the WWI era. The ethnic records really surprised me. I did not know this content was in main stream media. My teenage years were the 1970's but I'm not a big fan of classic rock which I loved back before it became 'classic' or 'oldies'. These days a superb Cornet solo can send chills down my spine because this hobby opened up decades of 'new' music to me. Collector. When purchasing a machine I look for characteristics that differ from what I have. This is partially driven by not having deep pockets. This hobby is rewarding in many ways because it is diverse enough to satisfy the mechanic, collector and culturalist.

Bob

[pughphonos]

As this discussion wraps up I want to thank everyone who contributed. I think it was a helpful and enlightening exercise and I'm glad that the issue of different/coordinating/overlapping agendas was engaging for many.

I think my three basic categories have held up as important base lines. It's like being of an ethnic mix; one can have several backgrounds, but more often than not one remains conscious of the elements and how each contributes to who we are. This works for individuals as well as society at large.

Some folks brought up Dealers as a possible separate category. I think they have enough in common with Collectors to include them in that category. So, below is my final iteration of the categories and then I'll leave it at that.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

1) The Collectors/Dealers: "Collect to Own and/or Sell"
They collect for the thrill of comprehensive ownership and/or investment; they treasure early and unadulterated phonographs. This group includes those who collect detailed data on surviving examples of unaltered phonographs.

2) The Mechanics/Restorers: "Collect to Repair"
Those who collect to repair/restore; they like mechanical and woodworking challenges.

3) The Culturalists: "Collect to Play"
They collect phonographs as windows to the past; they play their machines more than the rest and also collect records for use. They like the later models as they sound better and are more versatile; they are also not shy about making upgrades to their phonographs, even if that alters original configuration.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Final comment. There's obviously something of an interesting difference of perspective and approach between those who have the resources to collect many phonographs and those who can collect fewer. This is something of a "class tension" I observe here. But there are virtues to both realities. Those who can collect broadly and extensively command a great deal of comprehensive information; those who collect more narrowly have wonderful in-depth knowledge of particular machines.

The Culturalists are in the minority but tend to be more chatty and philosophic; the Collectors are more terse and direct.

As someone wrote years ago (I can't remember who): "The rich talk about things and the poor talk about people."

As Tiny Tim said, "God Bless Us, Every One" (if you're an atheist/agnostic, ignore the theology and take it in the spirit in which it's offered).

Ralph

[bigshot]

There is no class tension among culturalists...

i was at a party with a bunch of big time Los Angeles rekkid clektors at it. The topic turned to what was the highest price that anyone had ever paid for a record. One person said $250 for a 45. Another paid almost $500 for an LP. I was the only 78 collector there, so they turned to me. "Steve, you collect old 78s. You must have paid a fortune!" I replied, "Well, my current top price is $2 a disk. When I run out of great music for $2, I will consider paying $3 a record. But so far, the volume of great $2 music seems inexhaustible, so I won't be paying more anytime soon."

[edisonphonoworks]

I am the odd duck. I listen to my machines. Most of them were basket cases that everyone passed on. Then there is the curios kid, in me, who wants to know how everything works, this lead to re-creation of blank cylinders, not just in formulations but why did they have a spiral in side?.... to release easier from the mold, not split or bind so much. How did they make master records, OK lets build a machine similar to what they mastered records, on, only the recording head is Not a replica, but an original studio piece. I love music, all kinds. I am an American Constitutionalist, one who believes in The Bill of Rights, in personal privacy, and able to make anything happen with the use of imagination, governed by Christian values as well, and we all know what happens to a phonograph when you take the governor out, it runs away wildly until it self destructs, much like this country has for the last 8 years, no spiritual governor leads to self destruction. (The Goth stuff is evil, don't do that anymore!)

[pughphonos]

There is no class tension among culturalists...

i was at a party with a bunch of big time Los Angeles rekkid clektors at it. The topic turned to what was the highest price that anyone had ever paid for a record. One person said $250 for a 45. Another paid almost $500 for an LP. I was the only 78 collector there, so they turned to me. "Steve, you collect old 78s. You must have paid a fortune!" I replied, "Well, my current top price is $2 a disk. When I run out of great music for $2, I will consider paying $3 a record. But so far, the volume of great $2 music seems inexhaustible, so I won't be paying more anytime soon."

Good for you! I think most of us have chased after a disc we really felt we wanted. But there's often no real logic in why some things are priced so much more than comparable examples by other performers--besides the market factor. If you let your hair down and collect broadly--unashamed to pick up things cheaply and in less than mint condition--your window to the past is all the bigger.

[pughphonos]

I am the odd duck. I listen to my machines. Most of them were basket cases that everyone passed on. Then there is the curios kid, in me, who wants to know how everything works, this lead to re-creation of blank cylinders, not just in formulations but why did they have a spiral in side?.... to release easier from the mold, not split or bind so much. How did they make master records, OK lets build a machine similar to what they mastered records, on, only the recording head is Not a replica, but an original studio piece. I love music, all kinds. I am an American Constitutionalist, one who believes in The Bill of Rights, in personal privacy, and able to make anything happen with the use of imagination, governed by Christian values as well, and we all know what happens to a phonograph when you take the governor out, it runs away wildly until it self destructs, much like this country has for the last 8 years, no spiritual governor leads to self destruction. (The Goth stuff is evil, don't do that anymore!)

Shawn, right? Nice to have you weigh in here. You're definitely a 2 and a 3, of course--and I imagine with your phonographic ideology you've had some run-ins with purist collectors--and/or been ignored by them.

My feeling on restorations is that the acoustic phonographs were mass produced and very few are so rare that they have to be treated like museum artifacts. There are plenty that are already languishing in museums and private collections; so why not take some of the battered ones and do restorations and upgrades?

I too am all for personal freedom, tempered by concern/awareness of the rights of others (the Jeffersonian ideal).

[bigshot]

I think most of us have chased after a disc we really felt we wanted. But there's often no real logic in why some things are priced so much more than comparable examples by other performers--besides the market factor. If you let your hair down and collect broadly--unashamed to pick up things cheaply and in less than mint condition--your window to the past is all the bigger.

The thing is, most of the really valuable records are out on CD in top quality. Why would I want to spend a fortune on a beat pre-war blues or vintage jazz record when I can get it on CD for pennies. The stuff that never made it to LP, much less CD, is the stuff in the dollar bin.

[52089]

I think most of us have chased after a disc we really felt we wanted. But there's often no real logic in why some things are priced so much more than comparable examples by other performers--besides the market factor. If you let your hair down and collect broadly--unashamed to pick up things cheaply and in less than mint condition--your window to the past is all the bigger.

The thing is, most of the really valuable records are out on CD in top quality. Why would I want to spend a fortune on a beat pre-war blues or vintage jazz record when I can get it on CD for pennies. The stuff that never made it to LP, much less CD, is the stuff in the dollar bin.

Because - and this is particularly true for records from the acoustic era - CD transfers cannot possibly capture the sheer experience of hearing a record played back on the equipment that was designed to play it. A CD transfer of Caruso is all well and good, but it does not and never will compare to the sheer magnitude of a good quality disc played back on a properly restored acoustic reproducer.

[fran604g]

I think most of us have chased after a disc we really felt we wanted. But there's often no real logic in why some things are priced so much more than comparable examples by other performers--besides the market factor. If you let your hair down and collect broadly--unashamed to pick up things cheaply and in less than mint condition--your window to the past is all the bigger.

The thing is, most of the really valuable records are out on CD in top quality. Why would I want to spend a fortune on a beat pre-war blues or vintage jazz record when I can get it on CD for pennies. The stuff that never made it to LP, much less CD, is the stuff in the dollar bin.

Because - and this is particularly true for records from the acoustic era - CD transfers cannot possibly capture the sheer experience of hearing a record played back on the equipment that was designed to play it. A CD transfer of Caruso is all well and good, but it does not and never will compare to the sheer magnitude of a good quality disc played back on a properly restored acoustic reproducer.

And...and this is a BIG "and": this is the Talking Machine Forum, not the CD Machine Forum.

[VintageTechnologies]

52089,

Because - and this is particularly true for records from the acoustic era - CD transfers cannot possibly capture the sheer experience of hearing a record played back on the equipment that was designed to play it. A CD transfer of Caruso is all well and good, but it does not and never will compare to the sheer magnitude of a good quality disc played back on a properly restored acoustic reproducer.

I was going to make the same point. I do listen to acoustic recordings through a stereo system or car radio, but for some reason the acoustic music sounds better projecting from the original phonographs.