Vocalion 60000-series

[FrankH]

Somewhere I came across a 60000-series Vocalion red record, #60011 "Little Grey Home in the West." After some Googling, and pouring over the 78discography.com site, I can't find any information about records in this series. Help? I'm assuming that it's a lateral-cut record and not a vertical (I haven't tried playing it) but I'm interested in its vintage and whether this number series was short-lived. The label says 1921 so I'm guessing that's when it was made. Reverse is "When the Roses Bloom" (same artist). Any information would be much appreciated!

[victorIIvictor]

Hello, Frank, you wrote, "I'm assuming that it's a lateral-cut record and not a vertical"

Your assumption is correct. After 1919, which was before the name was shortened to just Vocalion, these records were lateral cuts.

"The label says 1921 so I'm guessing that's when it was made."

No, that date refers to when the Aeolian Company copyrighted that particular label design. That date will appear on all Vocalion record labels up to Vocalion's sale to the Brunswick Balke Collender Co. Later issues of records recorded before 1921 will also appear on the "copyright 1921" label, so you can't use the copyright date to date your record.

"I'm interested in its vintage and whether this number series was short-lived."

Is this a 10 inch record? Can you share the matrix number for each side?

Not every Vocalion will show a matrix number, but if they are present, they will appear in the decorative border to the left of the box that contains the label name and selection credits (i.e., roughly at 9 o'clock). The ones I have seen are handwritten, which is not to say that every one is handwritten.

These matrix numbers are exceedingly difficult to read. The best way to reveal them is to place a piece of onionskin over the area and gently make a rubbing on the onionskin using a soft lead pencil. Do this for each side, and I may be able to extrapolate from the Vocalion 14000 series discography.

Failing that, you might look up when the same selections were recorded by Victor, Columbia, or others, and make a reasonable assumption that Vocalion recorded the selection at about the same time.

Best wishes, Mark

[FrankH]

Thank you for the information, Mark - fascinating!

Is this a 10 inch record? Can you share the matrix number for each side?

Yes it is a 10" record. I tried to decipher the matrix number and came up with 11865 for side A ("Little Grey Home in the West") and 11817 for side B ("When the Roses Bloom"). Unfortunately I'm not 100% certain on these - you were right that they are tough to figure out!

[victorIIvictor]

Hello, Frank, you wrote, “I tried to decipher the matrix number and came up with 11865 for side A ("Little Grey Home in the West") and 11817 for side B ("When the Roses Bloom). Unfortunately I'm not 100% certain on these - you were right that they are tough to figure out!”

Thanks for this information. Vocalion assigned a new matrix number for each take and sometimes issued multiple takes of the same selection. Unfortunately, with the recording ledgers long since lost, I can only give you a rough idea of when these were released (not even when recorded), drawing on Allan Sutton’s Vocalion 14000 series discography, Mainspring Press, Littleton Colorado 2010 (CD-ROM) (sadly, out-of-print).

First off, the matrix for side B ("When the Roses Bloom) is almost certainly NOT 11817. While it is always possible that a large and well-run organization like the Aeolian Company would have used the same matrix number for two different recordings, it’s not likely. And matrix 11817 was used for Vocalion 14654 “Dicty Blues” by Fletcher Henderson & his Orchestra, which was released November, 1923. This is a justly famous jazz recording, and I’m sure someone would have discovered by now that its matrix number had been used twice. So I’m pretty sure it was not; it’s just that you’re not able to make out what it is on your record, a common problem with these!

However, matrix number 11865 for side A ("Little Grey Home in the West") does not turn up in the Vocalion 14000 series discography (and neither does matrix number 11866). Since the 14000 series and your 60000 series records are 10 inch records, I think it’s likely that both used the same New York matrix number series. Assuming that matrix 11865 was not used on a 14000 series (or some other series) disc that has a illegible matrix number (or nobody’s bother to study, like the 60000 series), the discography shows that matrix 11864 appears on Vocalion 14669, Isabella Patricola singing “(You May Be Fast But) Mama's Gonna Slow You Down.” Meanwhile, matrix 11867 appears on the other side of Vocalion 14669, Miss Patricola singing “Walk, Jenny, Walk!” This record was released November, 1923, according to the Vocalion catalogs. Barring the possibility that you are misreading this matrix number on your Vocalion 60011, I think it’s likely it was recorded in New York City, and released sometime in late 1923. By early 1924, Vocalion had moved beyond the 11800 block of matrix numbers.

Best wishes, Mark