Do wax cylinders shrink?

[alang]

Maybe a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway. I recently found a slip on mandrel for my Pathé Modele 0 that would allow to play the larger Pathé Salon or Intermediate cylinders. It fits perfectly and seems to be correct and old. Now I bought my first Pathé Salon cylinder and it does not fit all the way onto the mandrel. The cylinder on the inside of the smaller end is 74.4 mm, while the mandrel at the smaller end is 75 mm. I've never heard of reaming wax cylinders, but is it possible that a wax cylinder shrinks? Has anyone else seen this? Obviously my Blue Amberol reamer won't work here. What have others done?

Thanks
Andreas

[flashpanblue]

Hi Andreas,
I do believe that some cylinders have shrunk over time. I have found several Edison 5" Concert cylinders that no longer go all the way onto the mandrel. Which is a shame because you can no longer play them properly. I would be interested to hear how others have solved this problem.
Pete

[howardpgh]

Is it possible that the cylinders are out of round? The oval shape causing the shrinkage in diameter.

[edisonphonoworks]

They do shrink, that is how they get out of the mold,from 1%-2.5% depending on the formula. I imagine oils and vapors escape, over the years at a very slow rate. It seems that standard size metallic soap cylinder, do not shrink enough to notice, however the larger diameter ones, many have reported them shrinking, It may be a 16th of an inch, does not seem like much however that makes a huge difference in the placement on the mandrel. Also sometimes in attics it becomes hot and may melt the compound slightly, it just starts to melt about 215F And is soft and pliable some at 150F.

[alang]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I am sure it is not out of round. Does anyone have experience how to fix this?

Andreas

[phonogfp]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I am sure it is not out of round. Does anyone have experience how to fix this?

Andreas

I had 5-inch cylinder that would not slide onto a mandrel enough to allow a complete play. I was able to fix it with the following process, but if someone is at all ham-fisted or impatient, I wouldn't recommend trying it. However, if the person is reasonably handy, they can probably fix their record (carefully read all the steps before attempting this):

1) Cut a piece of fine or medium (I don't remember which) sandpaper about 5 inches wide and long enough to wrap around a 5-inch mandrel just once.

2) Cut an approx. ½-inch slit at the sides of each end of the piece of sandpaper, forming tabs on the sides at each end about 1-inch wide by ½-inch deep.

3) Wrap the piece of sandpaper around the mandrel so the seam is at the top (the tighter the seam, the better - - trim if necessary because you don't want any overlap). With your left hand, squeeze the seam together so the sandpaper is TIGHT on the mandrel. Bend over all four tabs and tape in place while holding the sandpaper tightly. When you release, the sandpaper should remain snug on the mandrel with no movement in any direction.

4) Secure the mandrel so it cannot rotate. (If you have a friend to help you, you can skip this step.) This can be done several ways, depending on the type and model of machine you're using. Set the machine's brake, of course. Then the upper pulley can be taped, gently clamped (with appropriate padding), or otherwise secured. The mainshaft of an Edison Concert or GG Graphophone can be similarly secured (taking care not to damage the feedscrew). DO NOT APPLY TAPE TO ANY PAINTED SURFACES.

5) With the mandrel secured, position the machine so you are facing the open end of the mandrel. Wear thin cotton, latex, or nitrile gloves. With your hands on both sides of the cylinder, GENTLY guide it onto the mandrel until ANY resistance is felt, then GENTLY rotate the cylinder on the stationary mandrel with only the slightest inward pressure. The cylinder will begin to "hang up" on the sandpaper long before it's even close to playing position. This is because of the two widths of the sandpaper. Keep this in mind as you GENTLY rotate or ream the cylinder on the mandrel. You don't want to keep reaming until the cylinder assumes what looks like proper playing position on the mandrel. If you have a second 5-inch machine to use for test fitting, your job will be much easier as you can accurately gauge your progress. WARNING: The reaming process works quickly! It will probably take longer to jig up your machine than to ream the cylinder.

6) If you have only one 5-inch machine to work with, try to remember how far out the cylinder was when it first "hung up" on your sandpaper mandrel. Ream only enough to correspond to the distance necessary to properly seat the record on the un-sandpapered mandrel. Remember - you can always ream a little more, but if you overdo it, you're screwed.

7) Carefully remove the sandpaper (you may need to use it again) and test-fit the cylinder on the mandrel. If necessary, re-tape the sandpaper on the mandrel and repeat the reaming, always mindful to not go too far.

Good luck!

George P.

[De Soto Frank]

Are 5" cylinders thinner in wall thickness compared to diameter than their 2" counterpart ?

Could this account for their shrinkage /instability ?

[phonogfp]

Are 5" cylinders thinner in wall thickness compared to diameter than their 2" counterpart ?

Could this account for their shrinkage /instability ?

Actually, they're significantly thicker.

George P.

[Chuck]

The reaming method which George describes is nearly identical to the method I use
when reaming new brown wax blanks on my shaving machine mandrel.

The significant differences between George's method and mine are as follows:

1) I do not use any tabs on the sandpaper. I rely on the available friction between
the back of the sandpaper and the surface of the mandrel to keep it from sliding around. I do hold the left
end of the sandpaper where it sticks out past the
left end of the wax blank. This is done using two
fingers of the left hand. That also serves as a way
to hold the mandrel still while the blank is rotated
back and forth and slid lengthwise during reaming.

2) I cover the machine bedplate with a sheet of saran wrap to keep the sandpaper grit
out of the machine.

3) I use 100 grit sandpaper.

And, I'll add that George is absolutely correct in that this process takes off a lot of wax
very quickly. It's very easy to over-ream it, so take it slow and careful and go little bits
at a time.

Be sure to remove all the reaming dust from the inside of the record before test-fitting it on the
machine mandrel.

Be careful not to breathe the dust. It is nasty stuff. Take the cylinder outside and point it
away from your face and blow it out facing downwind.

Chuck

[phonogfp]

Good catch, Chuck. I forgot to mention that I had covered the mechanism with clean rags so I could pick up the waxy mess and dispose of it. I'm obsessive-compulsive enough to consider that second-nature, but I should have mentioned it.

George P.