Edison New Needle issues still!

[need4art]

Hi All,
Well talking with my dad brings up some thoughts. First while diamonds are very hard they do fracture oftentimes in the cutting process. The weight on the tip of the diamond while we talk in grams is thousands of pounds of pressure at the very tip. This was discussed at length in an old issue of Stero/Hi-Fi review magazine years ago and I have been looking though my old issues and when and if I find it will post it. Industrail diamonds that are used as cutting heads or machine tools are often x-rayed to find flaws and fractures. Maybe talking to a manufacturer like Shure would help out finding what they use for quality control-and my guess is that Expert may not be doing anything to check out their finished product.

The truth is that we cannot keep trying to recyle the old diamonds-if the hobby is to stay alive and if records and cylinders are to be listened to we need to get this problem solved.

Abe

[larryh]

Walt,

I have forwarded this photo to Expert. The first needle did indeed come from the source your referencing. That seller would not back the needle and gave me Experts name. I did contact them and they basically denied any problems existed with their needles. However very shortly thereafter they wrote that they had spent some time researching the original specifications from the Edison Lab and had reevaluated something in the process of producing the needles that may have caused some issues. They were very nice and professional in their correspondence but at that time did not offer to replace the needle. When I again needed more needles I went to a very well respected source and in fact I put him in touch with Expert and thus he became a direct seller using needles from them. That is the best of my knowledge on that. However within a fairly short time one of the needles began to display the kind of problem seen in the photo. Now a second of the three from him has done the same. At this point even though I highly respect his abilities its been at least a year since I attempted to have the problem solved. I also sent him the photo and he says he will contact them about it, but is busy for months to come yet. I wouldn't say he is dodging the issue exactly, but my emails go long times without an answer.
Expert did replace the first needle when it was sent to them and was proclaimed to be "faulty". The three previous purchases were at about the time that Expert went through the process of reevaluating their production so it is possible that they are as you say, previously cut stylus.
Perhaps I should not have brought this up here? I do know that for the three or so years I have been around these boards the issue has come and gone from time to time and is nothing new. If it is indeed solved, that is a great thing. What I would hope then is that if so Expert would replace them with ones that do not display the issue. I guess till I hear from them I won't know much more on that point. My main question here was if others were still experiencing the same problem as I am . I guess the bottom line for me is that you purchase these at a fairly great expense and would seem to expect them to not have issues, at least not so quickly.

[need4art]

I hear what you are saying Larry, but Walt does have a good point. Dealing with a vender who has a long term relationship with a supplier will often yeild results that another vender may not be able to accomplish. And as Walt says bad news always travels faster than good and is hard to get rid of.
Going directly to the source may be the best bet but if they are aware of the fact that you are not an "expert" in the field than they may feel that if their product does not measure up it may be your fault rather than theirs. And that covers all things not just diamonds for your phongraph.
Since this is a cooperative board maybe the folks who are on the vender side of the issue can check out where Expert is at this point on their needles and I could check out what Shure does to QC theirs though I am not sure that we would be comparing apples to apples.
Abe

[larryh]

I received a reply to day from Expert. They are going to call me to discuss the problem. So far so good on that front. Will no more later.

Larry

[OrthoSean]

Larry,

Ask them what if they'll offer any kind of exchanges for those of us who have several (yes, SEVERAL) of the defective styli.

Mine all came from DIFFERENT vendors, none of whom were willing to stand bvehind what they sold me. I'm not making any of their names public, it isn't necessary, but I'd sure like to have a f****ng decent stylus for each of my three DD machines rather than just one reproducer I have to move from one machine to another.

And before anyone suggests "just buying new ones", these ones I already bought were well over $100 each and I have four that need replacing. Why should I be out $400, pray tell?

I'm not interesting in smearing anyone, but Expert should be standing behind their product, especially since we know this is where they came from originally. Incidentally, I own 12 different Expert custom styli for playing 78s and cylinders on modern equipment and I've never had an issue with an of them.

Sean

[larryh]

Sean,

Your probably not alone. I think that most vendors are reluctant to try and get involved for some reason. Most probably are hobbyist at best and don't have the same sense of obligation that a major repair source might feel. (granted they should, but experience is proving otherwise).

I agree about the loss of monetary investment here. I too am reluctant to have to purchase yet another expensive needle if the "backing" behind them is not there. Three out of four for you and I is not what I consider a good track record. But to Experts favor at least they are going to discuss it farther so we will see what transpires. It may be today, but most likely another day as I gave them fairly short notice on what time I was available today.

Larry

[gramophoneshane]

After about how long did the problem appear Larry?
The reason I ask is because I recently bought a replacement stylus myself & was very greatful when it left no marks whatsoever on the dead wax, but if it takes 50 or 100 sides before the damage starts to show, perhaps I should put a few hours aside to play a few records one after the other to double check the stylus is going to perform & last as it should.
As far as I'm aware, it's fresh stock obtained directly from Expert, so it would be interesting to see if it is a problem with old stocks only.

[OrthoSean]

Hey Shane, I'm not Larry, but I can tell you what happened with mine...

Two of mine left marks immediately and the other two did not until each had been used a bit, just how much for certain, I can't really remember. I'd suggest playing several sides of your endless piles of mint Hawaiian DDs and keep an eye on things, after one of my good electric DDs got some groove damage, that's what I resorted to.

Keep in mind, I do not mishandle reproducers, machines, records and styli. Careless handling was most certainly NOT an issue in case, as any of you who know and have visited me can attest to.

Sean

[larryh]

Sean,

I have previously read that some have found that to be true, but the needles I have are not improving with time only getting worse.

Shane,

I had one that did it instantly. It was proclaimed as faulty when Expert looked at it. The three others, one is still working fine, the other two began leaving noticeable lines or even surface changes in the grooves about a year or so ago. What I have noticed is that the one which I posted the photo of was only leaving the faintest of lines about six months ago and has gotten worse over time. I would say that most of mine were purchased around the time of the change in methods so they may all be from the earlier batches.

I didn't get the call today, which I felt wasn't going to happen. I will let you know what I hear though.

Larry

[OrthoFan]

Mine all came from DIFFERENT vendors, none of whom were willing to stand behind what they sold me. I'm not making any of their names public, it isn't necessary, but I'd sure like to have a f****ng decent stylus for each of my three DD machines rather than just one reproducer I have to move from one machine to another.
Sean

Hi Shane:

That's the one thing I've never liked about this hobby, the unwillingness of businessmen to ACT like businessmen.

Whether they are operating as suppliers/repair facilities for the pure fun of it, or whether it supplements (or accounts for all of their) livelihood, is moot. Since they are collecting money from people, they have a moral obligation (possibly legal, depending on the state in which they do business) to stand behind what they sell, as any business does.

If you buy rotten eggs from the grocery store, that store, personally, has to make it right, not the company that supplied the eggs to them. After you've been compensated, it's up to that store to go after the people that ripped them off. (I mean, this is common sense.)

Frankly, if the shops that sold these defective needles won't do anything, or try to pass the buck to their suppliers, I'd be naming names!

END OF RANT....