Couple of Edison questions

[Victor A]

Hi everyone,

Just bought my first cylinder machine (an Edison Standard B) and I have a couple of questions.

First, what does "fully" wound down feel like? I've been letting it run, but it hasn't full on stopped.

Second,how do you remove the crank and get it back in? I want to install some belting ( with an O-ring, like Benjamin Canaday (THE VICTROLAGUY) recommends, and I just need to make sure that I keep my machine in playing order, and that I don't injure myself.

Thanks!

[oldphonographsteve]

On an Edison Standard B the crank is threaded, and all you would have to do is crank it in the opposite direction you would if you were winding it up and it should come off just fine. An O ring may not be historically accurate, but if you're in a hurry to get it playing then that should work just fine.

-Stephen

[52089]

You may want to coax the belt off the top pulley to let the machine wind down fully. Doing so will free the bottom drive pulley from any friction that comes from having to turn the upper works.

[Victor A]

Thank you both, this was quite helpful. I'd still invite some knowledge and general tips though, as I am a rookie in cylinders.

Thanks!

[Lucius1958]

Hi everyone,

Just bought my first cylinder machine (an Edison Standard B) and I have a couple of questions.

First, what does "fully" wound down feel like? I've been letting it run, but it hasn't full on stopped.

Second,how do you remove the crank and get it back in? I want to install some belting ( with an O-ring, like Benjamin Canaday (THE VICTROLAGUY) recommends, and I just need to make sure that I keep my machine in playing order, and that I don't injure myself.

Thanks!

I think an O-ring would be difficult to install on a Standard, as you would have to remove the mandrel entirely.

You can make a decent temporary belt with duck tape, though.

Bill

[Menophanes]

On first running down my (identical) machine, I was surprised at how long it kept going. It will play four two-minute cylinders on one winding (about nineteen half-turns of the crank) without losing pitch, and with the carrier-arm disengaged the mandrel will keep spinning for several minutes after that. Eventually, however, the machine will run to a full stop of its own accord. (There is no danger in letting this happen; with no turntable or other flywheel to keep the momentum going after the power of the spring is exhausted, it is virtually impossible for the spring to wind itself clean off the central spindle.) Once the motion has stopped, apply the stop-lever; then, with the motor-board raised, find the brass tension-roller which bears against the belt just above the bottom pulley and pull this roller forward (it is carried on a spring-loaded arm). This will allow the existing belt to slacken so that, without having to put your fingers among the gears, you can slip it off the upper pulley as 52089 suggests. Now, as a final check, release the brake again in case there is any power left in the mainspring with the drag of the belt removed.

When fitting a new belt recently I found that a length of 287mm (11.3") gave a good result; I cut it to 290mm (11.42") amd allowed 3mm, or about ⅛ inch, for the overlap of the joint in the belt. This may perhaps help in finding the right size of O-ring. (P.S. The exact length required may vary slightly according to the way the spring-loaded mounting-screws of the motor are adjusted.)

Oliver Mundy.

[FellowCollector]

I think an O-ring would be difficult to install on a Standard, as you would have to remove the mandrel entirely.

The Edison Standard model B still has the end gate with the mandrel shaft casting boss to the left of the mandrel and mandrel pulley so there should be no need to remove the mandrel to install either an O-ring or a belt. Later Edison Standard models (C,D,E,F) have the upper pulley separated from the mandrel by the casting boss so, as Bill mentioned, the mandrel and shaft would need to be removed to install an O-ring. Personally, I prefer a leather belt and not an O-ring on any of my cylinder phonographs. But that's me. O-rings of the correct size work fine in my early Edison Shaving Machines since the pulley grooves used in those were designed for a round belt or ring (leather or rubber works fine).

[Victor A]

I think an O-ring would be difficult to install on a Standard, as you would have to remove the mandrel entirely.

The Edison Standard model B still has the end gate with the mandrel shaft casting boss to the left of the mandrel and mandrel pulley so there should be no need to remove the mandrel to install either an O-ring or a belt. Later Edison Standard models (C,D,E,F) have the upper pulley separated from the mandrel by the casting boss so, as Bill mentioned, the mandrel and shaft would need to be removed to install an O-ring. Personally, I prefer a leather belt and not an O-ring on any of my cylinder phonographs. But that's me. O-rings of the correct size work fine in my early Edison Shaving Machines since the pulley grooves used in those were designed for a round belt or ring (leather or rubber works fine).

Oh, I see. Thank you all for helping me with this!

[Lucius1958]

I think an O-ring would be difficult to install on a Standard, as you would have to remove the mandrel entirely.

The Edison Standard model B still has the end gate with the mandrel shaft casting boss to the left of the mandrel and mandrel pulley so there should be no need to remove the mandrel to install either an O-ring or a belt. Later Edison Standard models (C,D,E,F) have the upper pulley separated from the mandrel by the casting boss so, as Bill mentioned, the mandrel and shaft would need to be removed to install an O-ring. Personally, I prefer a leather belt and not an O-ring on any of my cylinder phonographs. But that's me. O-rings of the correct size work fine in my early Edison Shaving Machines since the pulley grooves used in those were designed for a round belt or ring (leather or rubber works fine).

I'm not quite sure what you mean. On my Standard B, the boss is part of the bedplate: there is no way I can sneak a belt or O-ring past it without removing the upper pulley from the mandrel shaft, and then removing the mandrel & shaft.

On my Home, I can sneak a belt between the upper casting and bedplate to fit into the slot; but not on the Standard. How do you do it?

Bill

[Menophanes]

On my Standard B, the boss is part of the bedplate: there is no way I can sneak a belt or O-ring past it without removing the upper pulley from the mandrel shaft, and then removing the mandrel & shaft.

On my Home, I can sneak a belt between the upper casting and bedplate to fit into the slot; but not on the Standard. How do you do it?

Bill

Was there perhaps a change in the specification of the Standard B, during its four or five years of currency, which has escaped documentation? I ask this because my experience, on a machine which is undoubtedly a B (probably late 1906, with the speed-check lines scribed on the back rod), is the same as Doug's: the mandrel pulley is on the same side of the cast pillar (or boss or trunnion or support – whatever the correct name is) as the mandrel itself. Thus, with the end-gate open, there is nothing to prevent you from passing the new belt along the mandrel until it reaches the upper pulley, pushing the bight of it down through the slot (or hooking it from below with a bent paper-clip or the like, after raising the top board, and so pulling it down), and then drawing back the tensioner arm, slipping the belt over the bottom pulley, and releasing the arm to take up the slack.

Changing the belt on a Home (I also have the B version of this model) is quite another thing, since there is an intermediate pillar between the feed-screw shaft, which has the mandrel pulley at its left-hand end, and the mandrel itself. As there is another pillar on the other side of the pulley, it is quite impossible to bring a belt into position while the mandrel-cum-shaft assembly is in place. At least, so I have found.

Oliver Mundy.