Kurtzman Glass Phonograph on Kjiji $300

[gramophone-georg]

I’ve purchased it. Thanks for the lead!!

Don't drop it, beeyatch!

[Benjamin_L]

I’ve purchased it. Thanks for the lead!!

Congrats Peter! I'm so glad a member of the forum got it.

[PeterF]

Well we picked it up today and it’s quite nice. The glass platter is gone but will be easy to reproduce. Everything else is present and in nice shape. Thanks again for the lead.

[fran604g]

Wait. What?! You're in this neck of the woods?

Nice, Peter - congrats again. I'm a little jealous.

Fran

[PeterF]

Reviving this thread, as the poor thing will finally be completed and put back into service - unless one more thing goes wrong - this coming Tuesday.

I’ll have photos and video once that happens, but here’s a summary of what happened so far…

- somebody posted a link here to an example of the mid-level Kurtzmann, the Chippendale, offered on a Canadian site sort of like Craigslist. It’s located just over the border from Niagara. Chippendale is just kinda awful looking in my eyes, but, well, the glass! And the glass platter is gone, replaced by a random metal one.

- I contact the advertiser, who is posting it for her brother. As things unfold I learn that they are not tech savvy, and generally vague. This will factor heavily into the subsequent proceedings.

- we strike a deal. But it’s in Ontario Canada and I’m 400 miles north of Ontario California. And the thing is ungainly and heavy and made of glass. So no way will we try a remote shipping service.

- as I seek a transport arrangement through local (western NY) collectors and friends, we discover that Zelle and other online payment systems don’t work between American and Canadian banks. And these folks are never going to be able to figure out PayPal or Venmo. So it’s cash.

- none of my buffalo/rochester friends or collectors were able to help - no time, no passport, no willingness, no how. But one of them had a friend who could. And so I was able to send him and his van and a bottle of good wine and the necessary Loonies to the sister’s place, where he deftly acquired it. The Mounties mounted a half-hearted yet extremely polite obstruction at the border, and then it was safely back in its homeland.

- I wanted the Studio model. It’s the simplest model, a glass box on top of 4 too-tall and too-thin legs, but handsome and elegant in its own way. The collector whose friend was the international pickup agent had a Studio. He wanted my new Chippendale, because it’s way rarer, so without much more discussion we traded straight across. His machine had been electrically and cosmetically restored so we also switched the motorboard and the attached phonograph components.

- switch made, my collector pal attends the union show with the Studio Kurtzmann and hands it off to a west coast collector, who takes it back to his west coast home. It sits there til it’s time to travel south for the LA show, and gets dropped off on the way with another collector pal in Sacramento because a schedule conflict prevented a direct transfer.

- When I’m able, I run up to Sacto and pick it up.

- glass and wood are good, wiring is shot, motor condition is unknown. And that $&&@)?!&$ platter isn’t just ugly and incorrect, it wobbles on the spindle.

- so the quest begins for a path to have a new glass platter made, with a proper metal center hub to fit. I don’t want to disassemble the motor assembly from the motorboard if I can help it, so getting the spindle taper right for machining a new center hub is out.

- I needed to find a platter with a hub that fit the Kurtzmann spindle perfectly, with no wobble and at the correct height, then detach and modify it as needed to mount a new glass platter onto it. I tried all the platters I had on hand plus borrowed a bunch from various collectors. Tried about 30 platters, but no joy. This was going to be an expensive trip to the machine shop!

- oddly, I hadn’t tried the platter from the Pathé Actuelle located just across the room - and when I did, bingo. It fit, plus the cast and machined center hub was riveted to the pressed steel platter. I obtained a stray Pathé platter, drilled out the three rivets, and was back in business.

- a couple of other collectors helped me out with dimensions and specs for the glass and hubs on their original machines. I would need a spacer to lift the glass as well as to provide the correct diameter and bolt circle to mount the glass platter.

- a collector friend in Massachusetts is a master machinist and volunteered to help with the spacer, and to align and assemble everything into a perfectly concentric unit.

- and then there was a pandemic and a few other piddling delays…but then it arrived in the mail early this year. Fit perfectly and looks great!

- took it to a local veteran glass shop, with CAD drawings for the glass and the hub, and set them on it. They were intrigued and excited about this special project.

- after a couple of weeks it came back. Platter was beautiful with a deep green tone when viewed from the edge, lovely clean chamfered edges, perfectly round…and a bolt circle that might have been laid out by someone’s toddler. So back it went to a second try.

- a month later it came back. Platter was beautiful with a deep green tone when viewed from the edge, lovely clean chamfered edges, perfectly round…and a bolt circle that aligned perfectly! Took it home.

- I had by then figured out the wiring and reworked the failed connection to the ballast resistor, rebuilt the bulb socket and motor switch, and installed a fused plug. Even found a close replacement for the original burgundy silk covered line cord. I verified that the performance and current draw at today’s line voltage were still safe.

- time to put it on the spindle. What a beautiful sight! Threw a record on it, set it spinning, and the thing sang again for the first time in decades. No appreciable wow or flutter, and quiet smooth operation. Done? Well…

- except for one little oops. The center hole (and thus the record) are perfectly positioned. But the bolt circle that mounts the glass to the hub is not concentric to it. So the outer diameter of the platter wobbles drunkenly when spinning - check the attached video. So back it went to for the third (and we earnestly hope, final) try…

- just as the glass shop owner leaves on a 2-week vacation. “They’ll get it done while I’m gone. Call me in 2 and a half weeks.” I call at the requested time, and “well no it’s not done, but we will have it ready next Tuesday.”

And that’s where it sits now. Tantalizingly close to the end of a mighty long journey - both distance and time.

[poodling around]

Reviving this thread, as the poor thing will finally be completed and put back into service - unless one more thing goes wrong - this coming Tuesday.

I’ll have photos and video once that happens, but here’s a summary of what happened so far…

- somebody posted a link here to an example of the mid-level Kurtzmann, the Chippendale, offered on a Canadian site sort of like Craigslist. It’s located just over the border from Niagara. Chippendale is just kinda awful looking in my eyes, but, well, the glass! And the glass platter is gone, replaced by a random metal one.

- I contact the advertiser, who is posting it for her brother. As things unfold I learn that they are not tech savvy, and generally vague. This will factor heavily into the subsequent proceedings.

- we strike a deal. But it’s in Ontario Canada and I’m 400 miles north of Ontario California. And the thing is ungainly and heavy and made of glass. So no way will we try a remote shipping service.

- as I seek a transport arrangement through local (western NY) collectors and friends, we discover that Zelle and other online payment systems don’t work between American and Canadian banks. And these folks are never going to be able to figure out PayPal or Venmo. So it’s cash.

- none of my buffalo/rochester friends or collectors were able to help - no time, no passport, no willingness, no how. But one of them had a friend who could. And so I was able to send him and his van and a bottle of good wine and the necessary Loonies to the sister’s place, where he deftly acquired it. The Mounties mounted a half-hearted yet extremely polite obstruction at the border, and then it was safely back in its homeland.

- I wanted the Studio model. It’s the simplest model, a glass box on top of 4 too-tall and too-thin legs, but handsome and elegant in its own way. The collector whose friend was the international pickup agent had a Studio. He wanted my new Chippendale, because it’s way rarer, so without much more discussion we traded straight across. His machine had been electrically and cosmetically restored so we also switched the motorboard and the attached phonograph components.

- switch made, my collector pal attends the union show with the Studio Kurtzmann and hands it off to a west coast collector, who takes it back to his west coast home. It sits there til it’s time to travel south for the LA show, and gets dropped off on the way with another collector pal in Sacramento because a schedule conflict prevented a direct transfer.

- When I’m able, I run up to Sacto and pick it up.

- glass and wood are good, wiring is shot, motor condition is unknown. And that $&&@)?!&$ platter isn’t just ugly and incorrect, it wobbles on the spindle.

- so the quest begins for a path to have a new glass platter made, with a proper metal center hub to fit. I don’t want to disassemble the motor assembly from the motorboard if I can help it, so getting the spindle taper right for machining a new center hub is out.

- I needed to find a platter with a hub that fit the Kurtzmann spindle perfectly, with no wobble and at the correct height, then detach and modify it as needed to mount a new glass platter onto it. I tried all the platters I had on hand plus borrowed a bunch from various collectors. Tried about 30 platters, but no joy. This was going to be an expensive trip to the machine shop!

- oddly, I hadn’t tried the platter from the Pathé Actuelle located just across the room - and when I did, bingo. It fit, plus the cast and machined center hub was riveted to the pressed steel platter. I obtained a stray Pathé platter, drilled out the three rivets, and was back in business.

- a couple of other collectors helped me out with dimensions and specs for the glass and hubs on their original machines. I would need a spacer to lift the glass as well as to provide the correct diameter and bolt circle to mount the glass platter.

- a collector friend in Massachusetts is a master machinist and volunteered to help with the spacer, and to align and assemble everything into a perfectly concentric unit.

- and then there was a pandemic and a few other piddling delays…but then it arrived in the mail early this year. Fit perfectly and looks great!

- took it to a local veteran glass shop, with CAD drawings for the glass and the hub, and set them on it. They were intrigued and excited about this special project.

- after a couple of weeks it came back. Platter was beautiful with a deep green tone when viewed from the edge, lovely clean chamfered edges, perfectly round…and a bolt circle that might have been laid out by someone’s toddler. So back it went to a second try.

- a month later it came back. Platter was beautiful with a deep green tone when viewed from the edge, lovely clean chamfered edges, perfectly round…and a bolt circle that aligned perfectly! Took it home.

- I had by then figured out the wiring and reworked the failed connection to the ballast resistor, rebuilt the bulb socket and motor switch, and installed a fused plug. Even found a close replacement for the original burgundy silk covered line cord. I verified that the performance and current draw at today’s line voltage were still safe.

- time to put it on the spindle. What a beautiful sight! Threw a record on it, set it spinning, and the thing sang again for the first time in decades. No appreciable wow or flutter, and quiet smooth operation. Done? Well…

- except for one little oops. The center hole (and thus the record) are perfectly positioned. But the bolt circle that mounts the glass to the hub is not concentric to it. So the outer diameter of the platter wobbles drunkenly when spinning - check the attached video. So back it went to for the third (and we earnestly hope, final) try…

- just as the glass shop owner leaves on a 2-week vacation. “They’ll get it done while I’m gone. Call me in 2 and a half weeks.” I call at the requested time, and “well no it’s not done, but we will have it ready next Tuesday.”

And that’s where it sits now. Tantalizingly close to the end of a mighty long journey - both distance and time.

A great adventure and a really interesting item !

[travisgreyfox]

Long journey with a ton a moving parts. Glad you got it so that it will run like its meant to.

[gramophone-georg]

You know what they say: "Those living in houses with glass phonographs should not throw stones inside"... or something.

[52089]

- just as the glass shop owner leaves on a 2-week vacation. “They’ll get it done while I’m gone. Call me in 2 and a half weeks.” I call at the requested time, and “well no it’s not done, but we will have it ready next Tuesday.”

I'm sure you know this old chestnut, but just in case...

Guy walks into a shoe repair shop and says to the clerk, "I have an old repair tag from more than 5 years ago. I moved away, but today I'm visiting the area. I'm sure you threw the shoes out long ago, but could you please check?"

Clerk says, "What, are you crazy? We haven't used these tags in close to 10 years. But just for laughs, sure, Ill check in the back."

Clerk goes away for a few minutes, comes back, and says, "Hey mister, those shoes you wanted, were they brown, size 9, and needed a new sole?"

Guy is excited and says, "Yes, that's right!"

Clerk says, "They'll be ready Tuesday."