Collapse and restart of Berliner's Gramophone in a nutshell

[Starkton]

These wooden needle containers which accompanied each Berliner gramophone mark the last use of the term "gramophone" for disc talking machines in the US. Both came from the same source, are unopened and hence still filled with needles. I will soon make an x-ray to check their shape and perhaps count their number.

The small tubes also condense the last tragic convulsions of Emile Berliner's business during May and June 1900, and Eldridge Johnson's difficult birth of a new company in July 1900.



Perhaps I should sell the needles one by one so that you can reproduce your Berliner or early Johnson records properly.

[transformingArt]

These wooden needle containers which accompanied each Berliner gramophone mark the last use of the term "gramophone" for disc talking machines in the US. Both came from the same source, are unopened and hence still filled with needles. I will soon make an x-ray to check their shape and perhaps count their number.

The small tubes also condense the last tragic convulsions of Emile Berliner's business during May and June 1900, and Eldridge Johnson's difficult birth of a new company in July 1900.



Perhaps I should sell the needles one by one so that you can reproduce your Berliner or early Johnson records properly.

Ha, it is really, 'In A Nutshell'........
Thanks for posting this one.

By the way, did you get the previous (another) question I asked to you about Tamagno recordings?

[gramophone78]

I have seen these wooden needle tubes selling in the past on Ebay.Most were being sold out of Florida.I was told the reason was that a collector in the 60's or 70's from there made these up to fool and decive people .As far as I know there is no documentation that these were make or sold by Berliner.Can anyone fill us in on these???.

[Starkton]

I have seen these wooden needle tubes selling in the past on Ebay.Most were being sold out of Florida.I was told the reason was that a collector in the 60's or 70's from there made these up to fool and decive people .As far as I know there is no documentation that these were make or sold by Berliner.Can anyone fill us in on these???.

During the last decade I have seen a handful of these on ebay from the early Victor period, but never an Emile Berliner tube! If these are indeed fakes they must have been older than from the 1960's. I remember a museum photo of the 1920's which displays such a container beside a handwind gramophone.

[gramophone78]

Yes,I know.I have seen one with the Philadelphia address as well.I was going to buy one to display with my hand wind but,I was alerted about these.They may have even been made in the 50's.Maybe George can shed some light on these.Maybe the reason they are not in any of the books.In fact like Coca Cola books.There should be a "Fantasy" section in the back of a Phono book.As we all know,they can fake anything and just because it's in a museum does not mean it's all good.

[Starkton]

As far as I know there is no documentation that these were make or sold by Berliner.Can anyone fill us in on these???.

In 1896, a "box of 100 needles" accompanied each gramophone. The term "box" leaves much space for speculations. Perhaps George knows more.

[phonogfp]

I'm sorry to report that - to the best of my knowledge - those needle containers are not what they pretend to be. Many, many collectors paid very good money for them - - I came close myself. I can almost remember the name of the guy who made these up, but I probably shouldn't post it anyway.

George P.

[gramophone78]

Thanks George.It not great to report news like this on anything.Like you,I was on the verge of getting one years ago but,thank goodness I was told about the man.Who's name I decided not to post.Do you remember when these were done???.If I remember right.They were coming out in the 70's.This is one reason that a forum like this is a wonderful thing.It informs us all of the good,bad and yes the ugly .One day a book may come out that has a back section for "fantasy" items.Petretti (Mr. Coca Cola) does this in his books.I think whenever these were sold on Ebay they did not sell for a large amount of money anyway.

[phonogfp]

I've been feeling sick about this since I posted. Starkton is a great guy, and I'd hate to think someone deliberately stuck it to him. I've seen these containers in person and they look VERY authentic.

I recall an ad appearing in the old Antique Phonograph Monthly in the early/mid 1970s offering these.

If Stephan hadn't asked for my opinion, I'd have kept quiet - - Gosh, I wish I were wrong about this!

George P.

[gramophone78]

No question it is a fine line regarding situations like this.However,we are all great guys..(and gals sorry Tinkerbell) and we have all made a bad purchase a long the way to learning.Therefore,it is far better to inform the person and or the group with the hopes that good will come from this.Starkton is clearly a very well read and very knowledgeable collector and this shows that any of us seasoned or new can have this happen.It is truly a shame.The one that should feel bad is the jerk that made these.Now this also makes me wonder about the machines that were made by the well "repected" collector.They were made as reproductions and in 50 years is there going to be the same problems.Case in point was the English made tin foil that was on Ebay a few weeks ago.The seller thought it was old and $$$$$$.It was very aged and incomplete.Most of us knew what it was or what it wasn't.However,to the newer collector............Their heart is pounding a mile a minute.Just my opinion.