hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

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SteveM
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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

Post by SteveM »

OrthoFan wrote:I believe it was the HMV-31A (Colonial model) that was fitted with the #5a sound box and corresponding tonearm -- http://www.radio-antiks.com/IndexRadio- ... MV_31A.htm
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The seller listed this as "1927." We talked about it, yet he still insisted on this date. I think I'd be prepared to tell people this is a 1935 machine. It seems like it's the very tail end of the Colonials, no?
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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

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I'm out of town for a few days and sadly away from my new machine, but I keep wondering about it.

It's such an odd duck. A horned machine in 1935 ... with no lid ... how were they marketing these? Maybe for people who wanted an old-world look? I don't THINK they were eclipsing the sound of the internal orthophonic Colonial offerings of the day? I'd love to see an ad or something.

Hey George, if you end up making yourself a new conduit, make TWO and sell me one. I suck at plumbing!
“The cup of tea on arrival at a country house is a thing which, as a rule, I particularly enjoy. I like the crackling logs, the shaded lights, the scent of buttered toast, the general atmosphere of leisured cosiness.”

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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

Post by epigramophone »

SteveM wrote:I'm out of town for a few days and sadly away from my new machine, but I keep wondering about it.

It's such an odd duck. A horned machine in 1935 ... with no lid ... how were they marketing these? Maybe for people who wanted an old-world look? I don't THINK they were eclipsing the sound of the internal orthophonic Colonial offerings of the day? I'd love to see an ad or something.

Hey George, if you end up making yourself a new conduit, make TWO and sell me one. I suck at plumbing!
The main market for these very late open horn machines was India, a poor country without a reliable mains electricity supply.
Their simple wooden cases lowered the cost of production compared with the contemporary table and cabinet models, making them relatively affordable.
Even the EMI Archives do not have a complete set of Indian machine catalogues, so the chances of seeing a period advertisement are minimal.

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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

Post by SteveM »

I took the HMV 31a to a 20s-themed charity gala a few nights ago, paired with a 102. Mic’d up, they sound pretty similar. It was so nice using two orthophonic machines with auto brakes again. It was a huge hit.
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“The cup of tea on arrival at a country house is a thing which, as a rule, I particularly enjoy. I like the crackling logs, the shaded lights, the scent of buttered toast, the general atmosphere of leisured cosiness.”

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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

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I read on the forum today how the conduits of these machines are sometimes wrapped to improve sound quality, as described below.
Inigo wrote: This reminds me of what other colleagues do to the intermediate sound conduit of certain machines. The latest HMV external horn models (25, 32, 31a) had a tonearm detached from the horn, each one in one corner of the case. They are linked within the case through a sound pipe, which colleagues discovered works much better if damped, wrapping it in thick rubber bands and then adding plaster bands.. when dried these remain tightly around the conduit, adding mass and inertia, killing the vibrations added by the conduit material. EMG gramophones also have a long internal sound conduit, but this doesn't need wrapping, for they are thick cast aluminium, and very inert by themselves.
Anybody know anything about that?

My 31a is sounding pretty good ... rich and full. Not as well-balanced or perhaps "inert" as my 102, although louder. So, I'm always looking for ways to improve its sound.
“The cup of tea on arrival at a country house is a thing which, as a rule, I particularly enjoy. I like the crackling logs, the shaded lights, the scent of buttered toast, the general atmosphere of leisured cosiness.”

P. G. Wodehouse

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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

Post by gramophone-georg »

SteveM wrote:I read on the forum today how the conduits of these machines are sometimes wrapped to improve sound quality, as described below.
Inigo wrote: This reminds me of what other colleagues do to the intermediate sound conduit of certain machines. The latest HMV external horn models (25, 32, 31a) had a tonearm detached from the horn, each one in one corner of the case. They are linked within the case through a sound pipe, which colleagues discovered works much better if damped, wrapping it in thick rubber bands and then adding plaster bands.. when dried these remain tightly around the conduit, adding mass and inertia, killing the vibrations added by the conduit material. EMG gramophones also have a long internal sound conduit, but this doesn't need wrapping, for they are thick cast aluminium, and very inert by themselves.
Anybody know anything about that?

My 31a is sounding pretty good ... rich and full. Not as well-balanced or perhaps "inert" as my 102, although louder. So, I'm always looking for ways to improve its sound.
Automotive sound deadener works really well wrapped on the outside. It's adhesive, so no need to wrap with rubber bands, etc.
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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

Post by SteveM »

gramophone-georg wrote:
SteveM wrote:I read on the forum today how the conduits of these machines are sometimes wrapped to improve sound quality, as described below.
Inigo wrote: This reminds me of what other colleagues do to the intermediate sound conduit of certain machines. The latest HMV external horn models (25, 32, 31a) had a tonearm detached from the horn, each one in one corner of the case. They are linked within the case through a sound pipe, which colleagues discovered works much better if damped, wrapping it in thick rubber bands and then adding plaster bands.. when dried these remain tightly around the conduit, adding mass and inertia, killing the vibrations added by the conduit material. EMG gramophones also have a long internal sound conduit, but this doesn't need wrapping, for they are thick cast aluminium, and very inert by themselves.
Anybody know anything about that?

My 31a is sounding pretty good ... rich and full. Not as well-balanced or perhaps "inert" as my 102, although louder. So, I'm always looking for ways to improve its sound.
Automotive sound deadener works really well wrapped on the outside. It's adhesive, so no need to wrap with rubber bands, etc.
Very cool, thanks George!
“The cup of tea on arrival at a country house is a thing which, as a rule, I particularly enjoy. I like the crackling logs, the shaded lights, the scent of buttered toast, the general atmosphere of leisured cosiness.”

P. G. Wodehouse

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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

Post by SteveM »

gramophone-georg wrote:
SteveM wrote:I read on the forum today how the conduits of these machines are sometimes wrapped to improve sound quality, as described below.
Inigo wrote: This reminds me of what other colleagues do to the intermediate sound conduit of certain machines. The latest HMV external horn models (25, 32, 31a) had a tonearm detached from the horn, each one in one corner of the case. They are linked within the case through a sound pipe, which colleagues discovered works much better if damped, wrapping it in thick rubber bands and then adding plaster bands.. when dried these remain tightly around the conduit, adding mass and inertia, killing the vibrations added by the conduit material. EMG gramophones also have a long internal sound conduit, but this doesn't need wrapping, for they are thick cast aluminium, and very inert by themselves.
Anybody know anything about that?

My 31a is sounding pretty good ... rich and full. Not as well-balanced or perhaps "inert" as my 102, although louder. So, I'm always looking for ways to improve its sound.
Automotive sound deadener works really well wrapped on the outside. It's adhesive, so no need to wrap with rubber bands, etc.
Very cool, thanks George!
Edit: I saw the size and price of the deadening material and decided to try out some motorcycle exhaust fabric. Maybe a good idea with all these HOT JAZZ records :)
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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

Post by HMVDevotee »

Tagging-on to an old thread, I'm curious what sound characteristics changed by adding mass to the connecting tube between the tone arm and horn. It would make sense that dampening any vibration would add a certain amount of clarity, even tonal definition (sounds more life-like, for example). Did anyone notice any particular enhancement to a particular frequency range... more bass for example?

I'm considering making a replacement conduit in order to achieve the longer length previously described, but achieving a constant rate of diameter expansion, especially over four 90 degree bends, may be beyond my skill set. I'm thinking of creating the internal diameter shape out of wood and then having it digitally mapped in order to try a 3D print of complete conduit. As I understand horn theory, unless you achieve the continuous rate of taper, you really aren't achieving anything by just adding length. I would be happy to stand corrected; remarks, please, and thanks in advance.

R.

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Re: hmv 32 horn gramophone ... ever heard one? (long)

Post by kirtley2012 »

HMVDevotee wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 3:30 pm Tagging-on to an old thread, I'm curious what sound characteristics changed by adding mass to the connecting tube between the tone arm and horn. It would make sense that dampening any vibration would add a certain amount of clarity, even tonal definition (sounds more life-like, for example). Did anyone notice any particular enhancement to a particular frequency range... more bass for example?

I'm considering making a replacement conduit in order to achieve the longer length previously described, but achieving a constant rate of diameter expansion, especially over four 90 degree bends, may be beyond my skill set. I'm thinking of creating the internal diameter shape out of wood and then having it digitally mapped in order to try a 3D print of complete conduit. As I understand horn theory, unless you achieve the continuous rate of taper, you really aren't achieving anything by just adding length. I would be happy to stand corrected; remarks, please, and thanks in advance.

R.
The Conduit on my HMV 31 is new and has been lagged, the result of lagging or dampening the outside of the conduit is less to do with adding bass or such, but it brings it closer to being acoustically inert, not perfectly, but nearer, and thus cuts down on unwanted sympathetic frequencies and overtones that can result from the thin tin conduits, the conduits on EMG and Expert gramophones are thick cast aluminium in order to minimise any such frequencies and create a truer reproduction of sound.

one of the most important things to avoid in an acoustic passage are steps, any sudden steps in the expansion can be detrimental to the sound, 3d printing does seem at a stage these days where printing a conduit for a HMV 32 may be possible as I think I understand they can print metal now?

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