Acoustic versus Electric recording?

[Frisco The Beagle]

Is there a quick and easy way to tell if a record was recorded acoustically or electrically?

I only recently joined this forum and learned of the two different methods of recording, and also of the need to play them on the appropriate type of machine so as not to degrade the record. Up to now tho, all my records have just been going under the needle of the Victrola . I did learn pretty quickly that the flimsier feeling, newer (1950-ish) records just bog the Victrola waaaay down so I stopped doing that.

Some of the labels on records I have give clues as to the method of recording, and I've read here that there is a time frame in which most companies switched over to electrical recording. But as a beginner, I am wondering if there is a quick and dirty method to tell the difference.

Thanks in advance for any help, and my apologies as I know my past indiscretions as described above will cause many to cringe!!

[gramophone-georg]

For starters, a VE in the runoff of a Victor record denotes an electric recording, and a "W" near the matrix number on a Columbia does, too.

[recordmaker]

I think the Victor/ HMV eccentric auto shut off groove came in at about the same time as electrical recording.

By the time the 1940 and 50s records were pressed I think that all companies were allowed to use it.

[gramophone-georg]

I think the Victor/ HMV eccentric auto shut off groove came in at about the same time as electrical recording.

By the time the 1940 and 50s records were pressed I think that all companies were allowed to use it.

Victor started the eccentric shutoff in 1923. Electrical recording started in about March 1925- but not all Victor recording studios at once. Electrical records began appearing before Victor's "Orthophonic" machines were ready for market- this is why early VE records were still pressed with the Batwing labels.

The eccentric stopping groove in a uniform spot became universal around late 1934- early 1935.
Columbia continued with (quite good!) acoustical recording till about mid/ late 1929 on their "budget" Diva/ Harmony/ Velvet Tone labels.

This info is for USA pressings. Europe/ HMV may vary.

[Phototone]

Well, you can often tell by the tune or song if you are familiar with 1920's music. Some brands changed their labels to indicate electric recording. Once you had collected for a few years you can pretty much guess correctly. Some Columbia client labels used acoustic recording well into the electric era (1929) as a cost saving move.

[gramophone-georg]

Well, you can often tell by the tune or song if you are familiar with 1920's music. Some brands changed their labels to indicate electric recording. Once you had collected for a few years you can pretty much guess correctly. Some Columbia client labels used acoustic recording well into the electric era (1929) as a cost saving move.

My understanding is that Columbia had *just* perfected an expensive and quite advanced acoustical recording system when the Western Electric electrical process system was shopped to Columbia and purchased. Not wanting to waste the investment, Columbia decided to use the improved acoustical process for their "budget" labels.

Columbia "Personal" and "Exploitation" records at the time could go either way to fit the client's budget. This is why most "MGM" and "Paramount Publix" as well as Broadway show label pressings were mostly acoustical- but some are electric.

[recordmaker]

I suggested the eccentric groove as an easy to see and quick guide, particularly for those later highly modulated electrical recordings from the 40s and 50s.

As with all these things the extra detail of the exceptions to the rule are fascinating.
but possibly not what the original poster asked for.

I think the main culprits in this area for the new collector are those much later records due to the recording levels and the pressing material.

[Marc Hildebrant]

The Western Electric Process was used on Victor and Columbia records starting in 1925. The Columbia people were the first to sign up and when Victor learned that Columbia signed up, they later signed on.

Others used their own process or other types (GE) later on.

I have a large section in my book "Music Restoration Handbook" where I write in detail about this subject and how you can tell the acoustic from electrical recording. The book is available on the Diamond Cut Productions web site if interested.

Marc

[OrthoFan]

As noted, the early electrical Columbia and Victor records are easy to spot, because of the markings in the runoff area of the shellac near the label.

Here's an image of the VE in an oval that was used by Victor --

(Later, circa 1929(?), this was changed to a VE in a diamond shape to designate the new type of cutter that was used. I'm not sure when this was phased out, but memory tells me it was about 1937.

As for other brands, when I was relatively new to the hobby, I relied on the information provided by the THE ONLINE DISCOGRAPHICAL PROJECT site to see when a record was recorded -- https://www.78discography.com/ It may not be 100 percent complete or accurate, but it's a good, at-a-glance guide for a newbie.

There are also a few online label guides such as this one -- http://majesticrecord.com/labels.htm -- that can help you date a record by its label.

OrthoFan

[Frisco The Beagle]

Thanks to all for the info!

I dug through some records and found some examples as discussed here. Attached is an older Columbia record with the "Electric Process" printed on the label and the circled W. Also attached is a newer Columbia red label with a circled W.