Horn condition opinion?

[Masha]

Good afternoon, everyone. I am just a lucky foul who almost accidentally acquired VicII. I really wanted to have a project to work on, but now I’m a bit hesitant on what is the right thing to do. Most of what I have read so far suggests that if original finish is salvageable don’t touch it. Could you please share your opinions on this horn condition? Is it safe to keep it as is or is it too far gone? Suggestions?
Thank you very much!

[Jerry B.]

Where's home Masha? I've never seen an original red Victor Flower horn. Are you restoring the Victor II that goes with it? Do you have the skills to duplicate that iridescent red color? The horn looks like a "tweener." I bet half will say it's only original once so don't paint it, and they're correct. The other half will say paint it, and they're correct as well. I would...(drum roll)... paint it if you have the skills or are willing to do it professionally.

Jerry B.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Hello Masha, welcome to the Talking Machine Forum! A Victor II is an exciting find.

That horn is very interesting. I have never heard of a Victor horn painted in red. Are you in England? It may be an HMV horn. I think they came in colors other than the Victor black. Yours certainly looks original with its square patent decal and round logo. Closer pictures of the decals and the area around them would be nice, as well as the end where the horn goes into the socket of the elbow.

And I'm with Jerry-- Let's see the Victor II, and if you can either do it or have help, this horn would look great re-painted.

[52089]

The decal appears to say "Berliner Gramophone", so possibly/probably Canadian?

[gramophone-georg]

Where's home Masha? I've never seen an original red Victor Flower horn. Are you restoring the Victor II that goes with it? Do you have the skills to duplicate that iridescent red color? The horn looks like a "tweener." I bet half will say it's only original once so don't paint it, and they're correct. The other half will say paint it, and they're correct as well. I would...(drum roll)... paint it if you have the skills or are willing to do it professionally.

Jerry B.

Agree- I would paint it as well. I am thinking Canada as well due to the red horn which, to my knowledge, was an HMV variant (not sure if that would carry over to Berliner). I also think that horn was not original to a Vic II as it looks like a larger horn than a II would have originally come with, correct?

[JerryVan]

I would never repaint a horn like that. Very unusual to find a red horn like that. True, it's not "pretty". If pretty is important, I would buy another horn with no finish left and paint that one. Given the current condition of your horn, it would be extremely difficult to refinish it in that translucent finish and not show the oxidation beneath. If I had the choice of buying a machine with that horn and a machine with a beautifully restored version of that horn, I would buy the original condition version. But, that's me...

[Masha]

Thank you all for your comments. You are good detectives, I am indeed in Canada, and the horn has HMV Berliner decal. I’m attaching picture as requested. I think I’m fairly handy with paint brushes, but original colour is beautiful and would not just come out of the spray bottle. I think I’ve read somewhere that original paint was shellac based? As long as the horn is not at risk of further rust damage, I’ll wait with painting it at least until I learn more and practice on a few tin garbage cans
I have a case and motor in for professional care now, and pictures reflect the way I got it first. Thank you very much for your information and support.

[Curt A]

Clean any dust or dirt off it with a damp cloth, then overspray it with clear lacquer and I think it would look fine... The clear lacquer will bring out the original red color and protect the decal.

[Canuk Phonographs]

That is from a Berliner model KT. The horn elbow from the KT is usually slightly smaller than the Victor II elbow so confusing that this horn was on a Victor II. However, the original red finish was not paint. It was shellac with a red dye tint. I have used red aniline dyes from Lee Valley mixed in alcohol and then added to either the clear or orange shellac. Then use a foam brush and apply. It may take several coats.
Methyl hydrate is used to dissolve the old shellac. Unfortunately you will loose the Berliner decal.