Columbia Graphophone Model BI? BN? Date?

[Bret M in Texas]

Hi, everyone. I'm relatively new to talking machine collecting; I have a fairly well developed tube radio collection, but within the past few years have been picking up wind-up phonographs whenever I have seen them.... probably paying too much of course!

Just the other day I picked up what looks like a Model B columbia. It winds up and plays, but the governer probably needs rebuilt. My question is if anyone, from looking at it, can tell me whether it's a BI, BN, etc. and the approximate date. Does the style of the Columbia decal give an indication?

Finally, if I were to try to restore it, is the finish lacquer, shellac, or varnish? My first inclincation would be to do nothing to the horn itself, and leave it oxidized. However, I'm open to your thoughts too. Lastly, I paid $250 for it at an antique shop. How much did I overpay for it in this condition?

Basically, anyone who want to tell me a bit about what I bought would be appreciated!

Bret Menassa, Denton TX

[startgroove]

It's not a BI, looks like a late BN. Also known as an "Improved Champion" ca 1909 (the crank looks like a 1910 version, the horn appears to be earlier than 1909).

PS, NICE radios in the bg!

[phonojim]

Welcome to the forum. That Columbia looks like a nice machine. I would say that you did quite well price wise too.

Jim. I love your radios, especially the Crosley "dashboards". I am still looking for a nice one in my price range.

[outune]

Yes-- It's a BN-- Is the horn nickel or re-painted? Looks like nickel to me. Go slowly with the clean up/polish and it may surprise you with how good it looks-- The nickel is thin so it's easy to polish through to the brass if you get too aggressive.

The smaller nickeled horns are a bit tough to find-- and Yes- $250 looks like a great deal!

Brad Abell

[Lucius1958]

The makeshift "brake" is a little odd: it must mean there's some issue with the governor brake.

The finish is probably shellac, as typical with machines of this era. You can get an excellent replacement decal from Greg Cline. The horn can be polished, if you use a fairly gentle polish, and work carefully.

Hope you have a good time restoring this BN!

-Bill

[JerryVan]

I would not think of refinishing that cabinet. Many of us use GOJO hand cleaner to clean the cabinet. Get the kind with no abrasive pumice it. Wipe it on fairly thick, let it sit a while, (maybe 20 minutes?), then wipe it off.

[VanEpsFan1914]

AGREED. I only wish they showed up that nicely around here!


You may want to:
1) Overhaul the motor. It is a double-spring model. We can walk you through that.
2) If you are going to play records even just a couple times, rebuild the reproducer. That appears to be a No. 6 reproducer like on a Grafonola, better than the old Analyzing Reproducer the BN came with in its earlier years. I have an old one with Analyzing Reproducer and it still sounds pretty great; still, a No. 6 is incredible.
3) Don't refinish it: clean it with GoJo like you would a radio cabinet. The decal can be removed with Q-tips and alcohol and you can put on one of Gregg Cline's new ones from Phonodecal, then let it dry for awhile and coat the face with shellac.
4) Metal finishes: polishing nickel plating with Flitz, Blue Magic, or Howards Pine-Ola work pretty good. It should look like silver when done. For rusty black metal parts like the needle bar in the middle of the reproducer, polish with emery paper or similarly fine grit abrasives and use Birchwood Casey gun blue to color them blue again and keep them from rusting. Oil lightly with a cloth wetted with sewing-machine oil just to be sure, polish with dry cloth.
5.) Hopefully you can adjust the old brake to get rid of that unsightly tin can thing stuck to the deck.
6) From here it looks like the 4 "tack bumper" rubber feet have been replaced by fuzzies.
7) I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH but if you do not get the tonearm to swivel freely, side to side & up and down, this thing will ruin every record you play. The horn unscrews. Then undo the 4 screws at the back where the elbow is. Take the elbow off, then the clips, and make sure the tone arm pivot area is smooth & polished, and lubricated with pure vaseline. I have to remove the tone arm through the hole in the back bracket.

Removing the reproducer from this one may be tough due to pot-metal. The reproducer is a pot-metal die casting. We have ways of making them talk--but we have a tough time getting them off the tone arm. I think it's doable considering yours is in good shape. If you don't want to I am sure someone can help. If I were more reliable at taking care of business I'd do it but I wouldn't want to keep you waiting considering I am kind of slow-moving

Welcome to the Forum!

[Bret M in Texas]

Thanks for the great feedback, everyone, and for the kind words on my radios, too. I have a pretty unfocused radio collection, the earliest I have is 1921, going through the 20s, 30s, 40s, and into the 50s, but my favorite era is the 30s. I've managed to acquire about 600 old sets, so will have many years of projects to get to whenever I can afford to retire....

Thanks for turning me on to Greg Cline. His site looks fantastic. Also the governor is not functional at all, records spin too fast and don't slow down. Pictures of other BN models do not show a brake on the front right corner at all. I'll have to remove the makeshift brake and fill the hole.

The horn is bare nickel and not painted, just has a pretty thick layer of oxidation. On old radios, we are encouraged to never polish brass escutcheons or hardware, but leave them darkened and tarnished as patina. My inclination would be to do as little to the horn. I've read that soap/water, WD-40, oven cleaner, and vinegar are good options to simply clean the nickel.

I'll search the forum, as I'm sure there are plenty of topic threads about polishing nickel. But I won't refinish; I've used Go-Jo, and also had great luck with super-fine steel wool wetted in mineral spirits, then spot-staining with Minwax Gel stain to cover up areas where the finish has worn off, and does great at just enriching the general color of the finish. Thanks again, everyone! And glad to know I got a good bargain at $250

[startgroove]

The original brake on that is part of the speed control. Moving the lever to the far left position is supposed to stop the governor from spinning. Moving it to the far right position frees the governor allowing the turntable to spin. There should be a small screw and knurled nut at that end which allows the user to set the top speed of the turntable. Cheers, Russie

[BillH_NJ]

The speed control/brake on my BI in off/on positions.