Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

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nostalgia
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Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by nostalgia »

This is for sale in my area, we can see it is re motored, and the seller also says so in his ad, but says it is a HMV motor installed. The model is unknown to my eyes, but for those of us who has the HMG book it looks very similar to the G.A.O./G.A.M model that is viewable as a drawing on page 103 in the book. Somewhat similar to the Junior Grand, but still with differences.
An original motor would be needed, it maybe should an early double spring...?...and also a new soundbox, I now know it is a Goldring, that is rather crappy.
"To do or not to do, that's the question! Price: 100 euro.

I can't say I am too attracted really, if it is not "super rare", something I doubt...

Any comments are welcome.
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alang
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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by alang »

I like it and would be all over it if it was near to me. DGAG (Deutsche Grammophon AG) cabinet models in good condition aren't too plentiful as far as I know, but a question on the German forum https://grammophon-platten.de/news.php would probably yield more information about this specific model. 100 euro doesn't sound bad if only the motor needs replacing...

Andreas

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Curt A
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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by Curt A »

I think it's a great looking machine and it seems to be a bargain, especially since there is no telling what records those are in the cabinet. As long as the top works (tonearm, reproducer and turntable) are original, I wouldn't be too concerned about the motor. As long as it works for now, I would use it as is until the correct motor could be found. I also like the German trademark decal...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

CarlosV
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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by CarlosV »

This is a HMV GAO model, which according to the His Masters Gramophone book was sold outside Great Britain. An unusual model, worth collecting and restoring with its original motor.

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nostalgia
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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by nostalgia »

Thank you for all good comments. Yes, it is a model that obviously is not turning up often, even if both the original motor and original reproducer/soundbox is missing from the machine. My challenge is that too many good gramophones are turning up this autumn, and both my small house, borrowed repair garage room, and rented storage room are now flooded with gramophones. :squirrel:

To make things worse, two gramophones, the early HMV table grand that is shown in another recent thread, in addition to a black HMV 97, is now standing on my kitcen table, undergoing an overhaul ( and a scrappy Columbia portable is in my car, still in its shipping box), but I was (luckily?) able to resist a good looking HMV 157 during the last week, that also tempted me, even if I already have one in my sleeping room!

I have however still put a bid on this Germany made machine, just to be sure it will not end on the landfill, but the offer has not been accepted, at least not yet. The machine may end in someone else's hands, but I am trying to convince myself that it is okay. :roll:

And yes Curt,,,I can see these tempting records too.;)

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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by gramophoneshane »

Hopefully you'll get this one.
I'd say it's a fairly scarce machine that you're unlikely to see again for quite some time.
It probably used the same triple spring motor that was used in the style No.X/XI (library bijou grand) so wouldn't be all that hard to find, even perhaps complete with a mahogany motor board from an XI.
I'd certainly be tempted to sacrifice one of mine to complete this one if it turned up here for that price.
Good luck!

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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by nostalgia »

I finally listened to you my friends! After six ! months, I today bought the cabinet. It is six months since we discussed this machine, and I last week understood it still was for sale, so despite of both a overcrowded small house with absolutely no more space for gramophones, and a rented storage locker that is also crowded, I drove out today to look at the machine. And we all know what happens when we drive out to look at a machine, it goes with you back home, and in particular when you get a cabinet like this for € 90 :squirrel: :geek:

I also agree with CarlosV, that this must be a HMV GAO model, since I now also have checked the HMG book this evening. We can see it has gilted cannon brake and a dial regulator speed control. From here starts my questions.

Is the motor a double spring spiral drive motor? I have looked at page 261 in the HMG book, and it looks very similar to the triple spring spiral drive motor, that I believe would be the motor to look for for this machine?

Since I could not find any photos of the double spring spiral drive motor in the book, I don't know if it has the same exact design as the triple spring motor (apart from not having one double spring barrell and one single spring barrel), and if it has..why the winding key did not fit the existing hole?


What do you think of the motorboard, has it also been replaced?

Before driving out, I was sure it was replaced from earlier photos, but now I am not so sure, even if the wood coloring is different on top of the motorboard than the rest of the cabinet , but that is also something I have seen on other early DGAG machines. When flipping the motorboard, it has the same color on the back side as the rest of the cabinet.


The board fits perfectly into the machine as it is now.

One can see one small hole in the upper left corner of the motorboard, it puzzles me too.


Many questions, so I upload many photos taken this evening, to make it easier to comment. It is an interesting machine for sure, and well...maybe the freezer now finally has to be sacrificed to give space for this machine.;)

(The soundbox was a Goldring, but that is no problem, I have a couple of extra early Exhibition soundboxes.)

Ps. Around 30 records were following the machine, most of them Soviet Russian records ! "Frankie Boy" however was also part of the deal, an Australian Columbia recording...

..and yes, the motor looks like new!!
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nostalgia
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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by nostalgia »

I have today cleaned the cabinet, and looked closer at the motor board. Myself, I now start to believe the motor board possibly is original, we can see color differences on the doors match pretty well the with color differences on the motorboard.

If the motor board is original, it also means that the original motor has the same motor board screws as the motor that currently is inside the gramophone, since no new holes are drilled in the metal to fasten the motor. I hope someone can give an input on this, if someone know both this motor and the three spring version of the same motor, if that is the motor that was original to the machine. If the original motor was the 3 spring version of this motor, it also means that motor has a difference in the area where it connects to the winding key, since a new hole has been drilled.

If someone is recognizing the motor, it will be easier to try to get a grasp on what other models that had the exact same motor, to hopefully over time, be able to find the correct motor.

Any input is interesting and gratefully received really, on the way to trying to make this machine original...

The small hole on the upper left hand side onthe motor board also still puzzles me too,....any suggestions what this can be?
A wooden needle container was following the machine, but I have not been able to find any areas with traces of where it originally was fastened, if it is original to the machine.
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JerryVan
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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by JerryVan »

nostalgia wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 2:33 pm
The small hole on the upper left hand side onthe motor board also still puzzles me too,....any suggestions what this can be?
It's for a lift knob, to facilitate lifting the motor board out of the cabinet.

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Re: Re-motored "Die Stimme seines Herrn" Cabinet

Post by JerryVan »

The only thing that appears "wrong" about any of this, is the fact that you have 2 crank holes. Look inside the cabinet and do some detctive work as to which hole appears to be original to the cabinet, and which hole seems to be added later. That big brass plate also looks like a later addition. Can you easily remove it to see what lurks beneath it?

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