My first talking machines and info on their restoration

[alang]

Great job on the cleaning and the repair of the bushing. The only thing I will never understand is why anyone would go through all that work and not also remove and thoroughly clean the springs. If I work on a motor I don’t won’t to have to redo it in many years or ever. Yes, spring work is hard, dirty and tedious, but I think it has a big impact on performance and life expectancy of the motor. Many here go as far as always replacing the springs when they work on a motor. I am slowly adopting that line of thought as well, because it makes sense that 100 year old springs weaken and become more brittle. No criticism of your excellent work, just adding my thoughts.

Andreas

[Herderz]

Thanks VanEpsFan1914. I am sure I will enjoy this as I do all my projects. I know I will spend way more time and money than the value dictates. But this is what I always do, one piece at a time until I get it to my liking or as far as I can go.

[Herderz]

Thanks alang for your input. These motors are very simplistic compared to what I normally work on. The bushing took all of 10 minutes to complete. Finding the problem and the solution sometimes can be challenging though.
As for springs there are many opinions, to many to name. Yes, just replace the spring takes it out of the equation but it can also mask a true problem elsewhere, meaning wear in the gear train and they are not cheap like they were many years ago. I have been working with spring driven gear trains for about 15 years now on a daily basis so let me give you my observations and experiences. First a spring does not become brittle and break. It actually will break because it has soft points that will crack under certain conditions.
A spring is tempered steel to hold it's shape, or force, as long as the winging coil is in a smooth arch it will not snap or break. It has both ends aneled or un-tempered to allow for mounting holes, etc. and to give it more flex at the sharpest arch of the wind. It is only about 2 inches on each end.
A spring will not become weak from use if it is temper right to begin with. A spring can become weak if it is left wound tight and left that way for decades. It becomes what is called "set" which mean it is still tempered but now to a smaller arch which reduces required force from the original shape. Here is an example of what I am talking about.

2 springs both the same length and thickness. The spring on the left is "set" with a new arch which can be seen by how many loops are close to the middle point. The spring on the right is the original temper which is just about straight 75% through the length, I have a weight holding it in a arch at the end just to take a picture. So using the spring drive is good or letting it wind down and not using the spring is just as safe to keep the force required.
So my opinionated concussion is to always run your motor down after use and you will never have a spring force problem.
I have springs in some of my clocks that are over 100 years old and still have the force needed to run the movement. I always run them down before stopping them for a long time.

[Herderz]

One last observation and questions, greasing the gear train and spring drum. The motor needs grease because it is steel gears driving steel pinions gears, "large gear to small gear" to prevent wear to the gear teeth? Clock world, Brass drive gears driving steel pinion gears, brass is self lubricating and needs no grease or oil to run for decades but it runs at a very slow rpm. Actually the steel will wear before the brass.
Grease in the spring drum has nothing to do with the force of the spring. it must be to quiet the springs movement in the drum to make a smooth running environment?
I am using fine clock oil on the gear pinions and bushing bores because it sticks to the bores and does not bleed off. Right or wrong and why?
These are mechanical drives that must have cleaning and lubrication on a periodic basis to remain in running condition. At lease every 2 to 3 years. More if they don't run than they do?

As always thanks for your input, we never stop learning.

[Herderz]

I started to clean the motor board, just a few scrapes but most will be under the platter. The surface rust has started to take over the plating on the hardware and will only clean up so much and will show it's age with missing final plating in spots.

I removed a couple pieces of hardware and the bowls but was not able to remove the speed scale, tonearm rest and needle lid mount. They are split riveted through the wood, so I cleaned the main board, hardware rust with a polish as best I could and reassembled the main board.

I think this might be a date stamp but am not sure. 81546 Could it be August 15, 1946?