Total quality contrast

[gramophone-georg]

i emailed a pair of sound files to Wyatt of the same record using medium needles, one each from the IX and the 4-7. He heard the issues and immediately asked me to return the soundbox to him. He jumped on it (not literally), found the issue, and quickly returned a much, much better sounding unit. No buzzing, good bass, great woodwind, but the vocals and the brass are not as clear as I expected. The vocals sound like someone singing through a Covid mask.

Unlike most Victrolas, the 4-7 has an all wood horn. Could the lack of a cast iron neck be a contributing factor? I can find no leaks in the horn. The swing arm has been carefully restored. The soundbox fits well to the swing arm. The soundbox is the standard pot metal unit in great condition. Could a different model soundbox give me clearer vocals while preserving the bass? Is the 4-7 the issue here? Or is it just that my expectations are out of line?

To those of you that can play the same VE record on an acoustic machine and an orthophonic, how does the sound compare? Is there a difference in clarity in the vocals and brass between the two? Does the better bass response of the Orthophonics mean sacrificing clarity in the midrange? If not, please tell me your combination of machine and soundbox. I don’t have room to collect a bunch of machines, as much as I would like, but I love the music and I’m willing to go all in for the right setup.

Thanks so much for your input.

Try some Vaseline on the arm gooseneck under the soundbox. Also, make sure that grease seals the swinging arm to the horn where they meet, and make sure that the pivot moves freely. I'd also pull the soundbox pivot point apart by unscrewing the ring, seal the joint with grease, and snug it such that the pivot moves up and down freely with no side play. Make sure there is no excess play at the arm base pivot as well, and that the arm moves freely- any drag will cause muffling.

All of these areas are a potential source of problems.

[JerryVan]

i emailed a pair of sound files to Wyatt of the same record using medium needles, one each from the IX and the 4-7. He heard the issues and immediately asked me to return the soundbox to him. He jumped on it (not literally), found the issue, and quickly returned a much, much better sounding unit. No buzzing, good bass, great woodwind, but the vocals and the brass are not as clear as I expected. The vocals sound like someone singing through a Covid mask.

Unlike most Victrolas, the 4-7 has an all wood horn. Could the lack of a cast iron neck be a contributing factor? I can find no leaks in the horn. The swing arm has been carefully restored. The soundbox fits well to the swing arm. The soundbox is the standard pot metal unit in great condition. Could a different model soundbox give me clearer vocals while preserving the bass? Is the 4-7 the issue here? Or is it just that my expectations are out of line?

To those of you that can play the same VE record on an acoustic machine and an orthophonic, how does the sound compare? Is there a difference in clarity in the vocals and brass between the two? Does the better bass response of the Orthophonics mean sacrificing clarity in the midrange? If not, please tell me your combination of machine and soundbox. I don’t have room to collect a bunch of machines, as much as I would like, but I love the music and I’m willing to go all in for the right setup.

Thanks so much for your input.

It may indeed just be the nature of your 4-7. My Credenza and my 8-9 have really different sound qualities. The 8-9 has an all-metal horn and has greater volume and a tad less bass but with clearer vocals than the Credenza. The Credenza, with it's wood/metal horn, has a fuller bass with a mellower tone overall. Then too, I find that each reproducer has its own "personality", with minor differences between them. In addition, I also find that the Orthophonics are fairly unforgiving of worn records. I don't mean worn as in "poor" condition records, but even those that may be classed just below "E-" sometimes have me questioning my reproducer. Then I play an extremely clean record and all is well. Not suggesting you have worn out records, just adding another thought to the mix.

[audiophile102]

I really enjoy the fidelity of my victrola 8-12. I replaced the sound box with one from a orthophonic portable and it's so loud I had to use bamboo fiber needles with the lid open. This video is not the best quality, but it will give you an idea how it sounds..
https://youtu.be/peinSPvek5k

[OrthoFan]

As Jerry noted, there are sound quality differences between the hard surface metal horns and the wooden horns, which tend to be more mellow.

Some--not all--collectors recommend adding moisture to the wooden tone chamber by painting it with glycerol, if it's dried out. RJ Wakeman wrote a detailed account of this -- https://www.gracyk.com/credenza.shtml

I listened to his Credenza many years ago, and it had, by far, the brightest sound quality I had ever heard from a Credenza, along with a resounding bass, a strong mid-range.

OrthoFan