SOLD: Nice Original Columbia KOLSTER Model 901 Viva-Tonal Phonograph - Inquire

[gunnarthefeisty]

Post by gunnarthefeisty » Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:14 pm

Are you absolutely sure the finish was original? Looks a bit light to me.

Gunnar you might be quite right in your assessment. If you look carefully at the photos, you'll see that it looks like the original finish has been stripped off. The telltale signs are around the front speaker doors and the inside of the phonograph compartment where it looks like it has the original finish. I have four electric Viva Tonals and they have a much darker finish. Mine have their original finish. The description for this phonograph is somewhat misleading as it stated that when the last time, he turned it on (who knows when that was) it was playing. He doesn't state if it is playing now and if so, how well it plays. One is led to believe by the description that it is in plug and play condition. Usually, these phonographs require full electronic restoration which adds hundreds of dollars to the cost not including the logistics of having to pick it up to take delivery of it which adds several more hundred dollars to the cost. I was initially interested in this piece but I'm glad I backed away from it as it would have been a terrific disappointment once I saw it. Besides, the owner was evasive and unwilling to put a price on it, fishing for offers. Attached are photos of mine showing the stark difference in finishes.

That's what I thought. This whole thing reads like a bad car ad. "Ran when parked, best offer, no lowballers I know what I have".

[FellowCollector]

In an attempt to get the record straight, I reviewed my texts to you since you first mentioned on the forum that you were going to be selling the 901. Since September 18th I texted exactly 4 times inquiring about this phonograph. Not once did you request that I make an offer on it. When I asked for a price, you were silent and evasive.

This is a complete lie. Please allow ME to set the record straight here.

edisonclassm had hounded me several times as he indicated previously asking if my Kolster 901 was still available through text messages and asking how much I wanted for it. I informed him that I needed to move some phonographs out of the way to get at it to take some pictures. But when I was ready I would send him pictures.

SO...when I finally had the 901 uncovered and where I could get some pictures I sent the pictures out to edisonclassm THAT SAME DAY out of respect to him as a friend (at that time) so that he could see the pictures FIRST ahead of anyone else.

It's important here to note that I had received several other inquiries about the 901 from other members of the Forum here.

And along with the pictures I DID INDEED ask him to make an offer on it if he was still interested after seeing the pictures.

He responded FIRST by telling me that it looked like a nice machine BUT that he did not want to engage in a bidding contest and to CALL him presumably so he could explain all the WORK he would need to do on it and to try to talk me into some low ball offer on it that I would hopefully accept.

Instead of calling him I decided to offer it for sale here on the Forum with my "Inquire" option since I TRULY had no idea what a Kolster 901 in good original playing condition was worth.

edisonclassm was obviously upset that I offered it here on Forum instead of to him and so in retaliation he posted the deals (low ball prices) that he bought SIMILAR machines at in an obvious attempt to devalue my ORIGINAL AND NICE PLAYING Kolster 901.

And as you can see in his comments above, he concluded his prices with "You at least have some references now as to what these things go for."


SO....one IMPORTANT question for YOU, edisonclassm....

IF YOU HAD MY COMPLETELY ORIGINAL AND PLAYING COLUMBIA KOLSTER 901 to sell would YOU SELL IT FOR YOUR "REFERENCE" PRICES OF $150 to $300?

Yeah.....I DIDN'T THINK SO....Given the outrageous prices that you ask for your items to sell you would likely ask some inflated price of $3000 or more for it.

Anyway, all of this said, I'm very sorry to have to state all of this publicly. But, again, I cannot and will not tolerate lies about me.

A collector who saw my ad made a fair and honest offer of $900 for my Kolster 901 and I accepted his offer. He is thrilled with it and I was pleased to have it go to someone who will enjoy it.

[Raphael]

Doug,

I've had the pleasure of doing business with you a number of times, including buying several high-end music boxes and phonographs. I've never been disappointed and would not hesitate to buy from you again. That being said, if you offered something that I have no interest in, or thought was overpriced, I would just keep my mouth shut and move on to something else. I don't think this is the venue for people to chime in with negative comments on something that's for sale. I also have some thoughts that I will express directly to Paul rather than air that dirty laundry here.

I hope your buyer likes the phonograph. That's all that matters. Nobody "needs" this stuff.

Raphael

[FellowCollector]

Thank you for your kind comments, Raphael. You will always have my highest respect. I completely agree with you on all counts. Unfortunately, there are those on this Forum who insist on creating problems for otherwise honest people . And to sit back and allow these people to post their derogatory comments publicly is uncalled for and completely against my morals. So I regretfully was compelled to respond.

Again, I appreciate your comments and the many others who have sent me private comments on this supporting my situation here with this.

Doug

[gramophone-georg]

Doug,

I've had the pleasure of doing business with you a number of times, including buying several high-end music boxes and phonographs. I've never been disappointed and would not hesitate to buy from you again. That being said, if you offered something that I have no interest in, or thought was overpriced, I would just keep my mouth shut and move on to something else. I don't think this is the venue for people to chime in with negative comments on something that's for sale. I also have some thoughts that I will express directly to Paul rather than air that dirty laundry here.

I hope your buyer likes the phonograph. That's all that matters. Nobody "needs" this stuff.

Raphael

This.
I also have lots of opinions about a lot of items and prices, but responding to someone's ad here with negativity isn't the way to handle it. It just looks like a really bad case of "sour grapes" even if that's not the intention and it is quite off- putting. Just my opinion.

Further, it seems people get their noses out of joint when people solicit offers on YT items as if that's underhanded and against the rules. However, if you look at the YT guidelines, this practice is acceptable:
"If you are accepting offers, you may use:
FOR SALE: Title of Object For Sale - INQUIRE"
I don't care for it either, honestly... but not caring for it does not mean it's wrong as this is not my house and I don't make the rules.

[Roaring20s]

I never have cared for any conversation in this section of the forum ... other than "Sold" or "PM sent".
Anything else only serves to pollute an otherwise health flow of items that keeps us collectors happy.
Even this, my comments, go against the above.
Just move on.


James.

[gunnarthefeisty]

My apologies to everyone- I didn't mean to aid with escalating the argument.

[Hyperion]

First off, Gunnar, you have absolutely nothing to apologize for. The whole purpose of these forums is for collectors to help educate and inform each other, and, as someone who knows more about mechanisms than cabinetry, I certainly appreciated hearing the opinion that it looked like it had been refinished. If it were something I were considering buying, I would certainly want to know that. So thank you.

Second, while it may not be against the rules of the forum to list something as for sale without also listing an asking price -- to just say "make me an offer" -- is at the very least in poor taste and lazy, an attempt to turn an educational tool into an auction site; and a free one, at that. I think it should be a rule here that if you want to list something for sale here, you should list a price. Of course, you can feel free to add "OBO," to let others know the figure you list might just be an opening price; but it's incumbent upon you, as the seller, to come up with that price. If you don't want to be bothered to do so, then list it on Ebay or give it to an auction, and pay their seller's commission. Don't try to get honorable collectors to give you free appraisals.

Finally, if you want to sell something here -- especially something that can't be shipped -- you need to tell people where, exactly, you are. The OP said his location is "eastern New York State." I have lived my entire life in different parts of New York, and, like the other 20 million residents of this state, I can tell you that "eastern New York State" is NOT A THING. There's Western New York, and the Capital District, and the North Country, and the Southern Tier, and the Adirondacks, and the Finger Lakes, and the Catskills, and the Hudson Valley, and the City of New York, and Long Island, and lots of other areas, NONE of which are known by ANYONE as "Eastern New York State." The OP knows it, too, unless he doesn't actually live in NY and never has, and doesn't know anyone who has. Either way, it's sketchy, and that, coupled with edisonclassm's story, which seems believable to me, and the OP's defensiveness, makes my Spidey Sense tingle.

One more thing: The antique radio forums have strict rules on their classified board that include both an asking price and a location. Why not here? It's just considerate.

[gramophone-georg]

First off, Gunnar, you have absolutely nothing to apologize for. The whole purpose of these forums is for collectors to help educate and inform each other, and, as someone who knows more about mechanisms than cabinetry, I certainly appreciated hearing the opinion that it looked like it had been refinished. If it were something I were considering buying, I would certainly want to know that. So thank you.

Second, while it may not be against the rules of the forum to list something as for sale without also listing an asking price -- to just say "make me an offer" -- is at the very least in poor taste and lazy, an attempt to turn an educational tool into an auction site; and a free one, at that. I think it should be a rule here that if you want to list something for sale here, you should list a price. Of course, you can feel free to add "OBO," to let others know the figure you list might just be an opening price; but it's incumbent upon you, as the seller, to come up with that price. If you don't want to be bothered to do so, then list it on Ebay or give it to an auction, and pay their seller's commission. Don't try to get honorable collectors to give you free appraisals.

Finally, if you want to sell something here -- especially something that can't be shipped -- you need to tell people where, exactly, you are. The OP said his location is "eastern New York State." I have lived my entire life in different parts of New York, and, like the other 20 million residents of this state, I can tell you that "eastern New York State" is NOT A THING. There's Western New York, and the Capital District, and the North Country, and the Southern Tier, and the Adirondacks, and the Finger Lakes, and the Catskills, and the Hudson Valley, and the City of New York, and Long Island, and lots of other areas, NONE of which are known by ANYONE as "Eastern New York State." The OP knows it, too, unless he doesn't actually live in NY and never has, and doesn't know anyone who has. Either way, it's sketchy, and that, coupled with edisonclassm's story, which seems believable to me, and the OP's defensiveness, makes my Spidey Sense tingle.

One more thing: The antique radio forums have strict rules on their classified board that include both an asking price and a location. Why not here? It's just considerate.

Good Lord.

1. The rules here are the rules here- they're not what you "feel" the rules should be, or what the rules on another unrelated damn forum are.
2. I'm originally from Brooklyn... you're saying that upstate doesn't have an east side? Please.
3. You know what's really in poor taste? This kind of crap on someone else's ad. This REALLY makes my "spidey sense" tingle.

This should have been dropped long ago. The OP sold his item for a price he was happy with to a collector who wants/ appreciates it very fast. It's bright light obvious to anyone but a pot stirring nimrod that the OP was not asking "honorable collectors" for a "free appraisal". I suppose you feel "what is it worth" threads should be banned, too. Well, they're not, and it's not your call. You know what honorable collectors do NOT do? What you just did.

I am just appalled by the brash deliberate rudeness and self righteous bullying I am witnessing here. This and others like it are not informative posts that help further the hobby... they are trolling agendas that drive people away. Reminds me of a certain late individual in the UK collector community.

Sorry- not sorry. This is my opinion and I am happy to own it.
Good day.

PS: I see you do not display YOUR location, although you say this should be "required" like it is on some other forum. Why am I not surprised?

[Hyperion]

Well, you may live in Oregon now, but you haven't lost that charming outer-borough attitude/inferiority complex. "Self-righteous bullying"? Gee, G-G -- project much, do you?

I guess you've been away from NY so long that you've forgotten that, geographically, "eastern New York State" runs 350 miles, from Staten Island to Rouse's Point. As I said, as a geographic descriptor, it's not a thing. And it's useless. Unless the OP is in the witness protection program, there's no good reason for him to deliberately obfuscate his location like that, especially when he's trying to sell items that will need to be picked up. Something smells funny here -- kind of like the Gowanus Canal in G-G's old neighborhood.

Frankly, I do think "what's this worth" questions are in poor taste -- again, if you want an appraisal on something you're looking to sell, there are professionals who can help you out, for a price. ("How much should I pay for this" questions are, of course, a different matter, and that's what we're all here for.) But more importantly, G-G's "The rules are the rules, and shut up, peon!" and "Who cares what they're doing on another damn forum!" attitudes are not helpful. I don't know you, sir, but you are not making a good first impression. Rules can be changed. Things can be improved. Carmakers come out with new models every year. Apple updates the iPhone every year. The U.S. Constitution can be amended. If a rule change makes the forums better and more user-friendly, then saying "the rules are the rules" and that's that, is, to put it nicely, counterproductive.

Oh, and as I said, I have lived in the great state of NY my entire life. If I ever list something for sale here, I will be sure to include my zip code.