What a lot of effort!

[epigramophone]

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 450aa8318f

I have always considered the "hornless" one of the least attractive gramophone styles, but a previous owner of this one thought it worth the effort of creating a lid for it. They seem to have done quite a good job, overcoming the obstacle of the back bracket.

[Steve]

I quite like Hornless gramophones and prefer them to Table models as they tend to be smaller and do exactly the same job. I appreciate a lot of collectors are rather sniffy about them but when they're cheap I find them hard to resist.

I have 2 Style No. 1 models similar to the one for sale but they are both the earliest (and in my opinion more attractive) example with a shallower plinth. Curiously, one is from India and came in a retailer's TEAK purpose made outer carrying case! The clever thing is that it was so designed in order that you can use and play the machine without removing it from the outer trunk! Both the machine and the trunk have matching dealer's plaques and decals. Of course the machine itself is practically mint condition.

But for the anoraks amongst us, the motor board is mitred! Yes, a mitred motorboard on an HMV no. 1. I've never seen that anywhere before and you won't find it mentioned in "HMG" either! If the machine was made in India, it begs the question why it wasn't teak.

My other No. 1 is also in a carrying trunk, albeit canvas and leather. It looks as though its just left the factory. As Howard Hope once remarked about it "It's an otherwise fairly ordinary and uninteresting machine made interesting by its extraordinary condition".

Going back to the current example on Saleroom, which is otherwise the most commonly seen Hornless variant, two things are notable to me: firstly, the back bracket / cowl appears to be in superb condition which is NOT common but unsurprising given the purpose made lid some proud owner carefully crafted for it. Most examples seen for sale tend to be either rusty or have been rubbed down back to steel or painted black. It is unusual to find them with clean bright nickel plated back brackets.

The second thing is that the gramophone is in Somerset. Go on, Roger, its calling out to you. Surely it has your name on it?!

I've had the lesser seen 1A in mahogany with cast iron horn and the heavy Model 3, both now sold. I regret selling them as they were both in mint condition but I regret not having enough space to keep them even more and £800 for the pair seemed fair enough at the time.

There was a No. 6 on Ebay recently. Now that was a machine I would like. However, it was the same example which was seen on Ebay during lockdown in a very sorry state and stupidly high price. The new owner had bought it as a lock down project to restore and to alleviate his obvious boredom being incarcerated but in my opinion he had made the machine worse than it needed to be. Although he dropped the price after failing to make a profit I wasn't tempted enough and in the end he unconvincingly tried to show it had sold for £500! Dream on.......

I would still like a good original example but they appear to be few in number. I've got the HMV 55 Nursey model and that very odd oak version of the same identical machine that Guido Severens sold me via Ebay a couple of years ago. So, after all that, discounting a mahogany single spring Pigmy Grand and double spring oak Pigmy Grand, I currently only have 4 other Hornless machines and two pairs of them are practically identical to each other!

[Inigo]

I couldn't resist a HMV style III tabletop some years ago (my last machine) for 120€ in Oak, very very good condition, made by the French branch, with a dealer's plaque from Eugene Hermann store in Metz, Alsace, that came with a 11" record of French vaudeville songs, with a sticker from the same shop, of all things! It seemed a real bargain, and I'm proud of it. Now that my HMV 127 has died from brokenspringsm, this has become my daily player. Of course the sound is not the best, but using an HMV no5a or a Meltrope III improves the sound a lot... And you get easily used to this sound. Even with an improved Exhibition for which I've made an aluminium diaphragm, and the sound in classical recordings is astounding!

[Steve]

I couldn't resist a HMV style III tabletop some years ago (my last machine) for 120€ in Oak, very very good condition, made by the French branch, with a dealer's plaque from Eugene Hermann store in Metz, Alsace, that came with a 11" record of French vaudeville songs, with a sticker from the same shop, of all things! It seemed a real bargain, and I'm proud of it. Now that my HMV 127 has died from brokenspringsm, this has become my daily player. Of course the sound is not the best, but using an HMV no5a or a Meltrope III improves the sound a lot... And you get easily used to this sound. Even with an improved Exhibition for which I've made an aluminium diaphragm, and the sound in classical recordings is astounding!

It sounds like quite the bargain you got there. Now, before I get shot down in flames by anyone who can rightfully claim to be able to buy one of these for £20 at auction when no one else apparently wants them, I'd add that CONDITION is everything. As I said in my overlong response above I am looking for a Style 6 (the largest of the 3 initial Hornless machines from HMV) and yet I turned down for the second time the opportunity to buy the one on Ebay, both unrestored and later poorly "restored". I'm looking for a good original example.

Most hornless machines are not inspiring in the typical condition they are usually found in but as quoted by HH in my earlier post, a stunning condition example suddenly draws interest. Admittedly not everyone will agree but it only takes two people to get the price up!

[Steve]

Well, it certainly fired up a lot of interest, eventually romping home to a world record price of £20! Obviously there aren't (m)any collectors in Somerset. Even within a measly 30 mile radius of me and in the grubbiest, least welcoming auction rooms with the least helpful staff in the country (there are a few to choose from) I reckon this would have made at least £50-60 on a bad day. What's going on in Somerset? Is the cider to blame?

[epigramophone]

Each to his own. I made it clear in my original post that I do not like hornless machines, not even at £20.
They are little more than table models without the benefit of a lid to keep the dust off.
I have only owned one hornless, which I was obliged to buy as part of a deal to secure a machine which I actually wanted.
From memory the hornless was a Model 3, later renamed Model 58. I sold it quickly without regret.

I have had some very good buys at Clevedon Salerooms, not least this lot :

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54339&p=322857&hili ... on#p322857

[Steve]

I made it clear in my original post that I do not like hornless machines, not even at £20.
They are little more than table models without the benefit of a lid to keep the dust off.
I have only owned one hornless, which I was obliged to buy as part of a deal to secure a machine which I actually wanted.
From memory the hornless was a Model 3, later renamed Model 58. I sold it quickly without regret.

Hmmm....ok, that's interesting. So even though the soundbox alone has to be worth £60-80 on Ebay, you're still not tempted at £20? I think my Model 3 might have actually been a 58 from memory. Unlike you, I do actually regret selling mine too. They have such robust and beautifully made mahogany cabinets, possibly even better than those made a decade or so earlier.