Black / Shellac Dust On Needle After Playing, Tried Everything

[OddRomanian]

I suspect your records are all prone to black dust.
The Columbia with the Falange hymn is R-6000? Then it's not 1954, but a bad pressing from 1936-1937, and it was not the best quality shellac due to the war shortages. Besides that it was overmodulated and never sounded very well. I know because I have the same record. Not a good example for these tests. The black dust on it comes from the record whatever needle you use, and bamboo is worst, as it will burn the grooves with the friction.
Can you post a clear, full flat photo of this record? We could judge better then...
Besides that, undoubtedly the sound is constricted and not as full warm and good as it should be. Not sure, but I bet you have a problem with the soundbox, and my advice is not to play records anymore except one sacrifice record you choose for trials and tests until you get this problem solved. That soundbox will destroy anything you play with it.
Watch this example of a well restored 5a soundbox and how should it sound on a good 1941 record: this is with bamboo needle but the record is a good pressing and in a perfect shape;
https://youtu.be/NLs17N_3CIM?si=EBa18EK9C5YpM-tl

Okay, I see. Thank you!

https://imgur.com/a/KtEtsAM

There is a picture of the Columbia record, yes it is R-6000 so I guess I got the date wrong, sorry!

I've just two questions,

- What should I do with my soundbox? Anything to restore in particular? Full restoration?

The only expert in my area offers this process for soundboxes:

-Disassembly and cleaning of all parts.

-Replacement of joints.

-Stylus bar tension adjustment for optimal operation.

-Sealing with wax of the stylus-diaphragm connection.

Is that enough or should I send my reproducer overseas for everything to be restored?

Second question is, have I fully destroyed all my records yet, or do they still have a chance for survival If I restore my soundbox?

I'm sorry if my questions are stupid!

Thank you very much!

[CarlosV]

Second question is, have I fully destroyed all my records yet, or do they still have a chance for survival If I restore my soundbox?

The only answer to this question is by playing the records in a modern turntable and listening to any degradation, especially in the higher modulation and higher volume parts. Dust on the needle is not necessarily a sign that the record is useless, the dust may come from the runout groove, or from parts of the groove that were already degraded when you played it, so it will not necessarily result in audible degradation.

[OddRomanian]

Second question is, have I fully destroyed all my records yet, or do they still have a chance for survival If I restore my soundbox?

The only answer to this question is by playing the records in a modern turntable and listening to any degradation, especially in the higher modulation and higher volume parts. Dust on the needle is not necessarily a sign that the record is useless, the dust may come from the runout groove, or from parts of the groove that were already degraded when you played it, so it will not necessarily result in audible degradation.

Well, not necessary audible degradation, my concern is that, maybe, now that they've been degraded a bit, they will continue degrading and degrading no matter if I use a proper soundbox because this soundbox degraded them to a point of no return, the needle having dust on these records no matter as I do (as a person told me here).

Do you think that could happen?

Thank you!

[OrthoFan]

I want to mention one more thing.

I did a somewhat weird test where I wound up the gramophone and I very carefully held and placed a needle on the groove with my fingers, applying no pressure and making sure It was well placed on the groove.

Even though I applied no pressure and the needle was perfeclty placed, It still had shellac dust on It after only a few seconds.

Does this information help? Maybe It isn't the gramophones fault after all?

For me, it basically confirms a semi-frozen needle bar, perhaps coupled with a too-stiff diaphragm. If the black dust was caused by too much pressure on the groove, then there should be some improvement. But, based on what you've seen, the needle appears to be unable to track--or move with--the sideways motion of the groove properly, and is likely scraping against the sides of the groove.

At some point, I'd opt for a restoration of the reproducer by someone who is experienced, as Indigo noted. The results will justify the expense--a more mellow as well as a "fuller" tone, less record wear, and reduced surface noise. Along this line, I noticed that when the 5a sound box installed on the HMV 102 portable I used to own was expertly overhauled, what little surface noise I heard took on a different quality. Instead of a hissing "Sssssssssssss" sound, I heard a "Shhhhhhhhh" sound.

OrthoFan

[OddRomanian]

I want to mention one more thing.

I did a somewhat weird test where I wound up the gramophone and I very carefully held and placed a needle on the groove with my fingers, applying no pressure and making sure It was well placed on the groove.

Even though I applied no pressure and the needle was perfeclty placed, It still had shellac dust on It after only a few seconds.

Does this information help? Maybe It isn't the gramophones fault after all?

For me, it basically confirms a semi-frozen needle bar, perhaps coupled with a too-stiff diaphragm. If the black dust was caused by too much pressure on the groove, then there should be some improvement. But, based on what you've seen, the needle appears to be unable to track--or move with--the sideways motion of the groove properly, and is likely scraping against the sides of the groove.

At some point, I'd opt for a restoration of the reproducer by someone who is experienced, as Indigo noted. The results will justify the expense--a more mellow as well as a "fuller" tone, less record wear, and reduced surface noise. Along this line, I noticed that when the 5a sound box installed on the HMV 102 portable I used to own was expertly overhauled, what little surface noise I heard took on a different quality. Instead of a hissing "Sssssssssssss" sound, I heard a "Shhhhhhhhh" sound.

OrthoFan

Okay then, I've decided I will restore my reproducer / buy a new restored one. Is a Columbia 15A a good reproducer?

Or I could rebuild mine, the only expert in my area offers this process for soundboxes:

-Disassembly and cleaning of all parts.

-Replacement of joints.

-Stylus bar tension adjustment for optimal operation.

-Sealing with wax of the stylus-diaphragm connection.

Is that enough or should I send my reproducer overseas for everything to be restored? Do you know any good repairmen in Europe?

Second question is, have I fully destroyed all my records yet, or do they still have a chance for survival If I restore my soundbox?

I'm sorry if my questions are stupid!

Thank you very much for helping me all throughout!

[Inigo]

Your area is Madrid, my area. Who is the expert? If he is Pedro Fono, go ahead, but he will charge his money for that. I could do it for you for free, but I'm just a fan, not an expert, although I understand these soundboxes very well. Nevertheless I need to see first if the box is repairable or not, if it has swelling problems, etc, which could be the reason for it not working properly. I don't want to take unnecessary risks with something that is not mine... If he's Pedro and the price is ok for you, go ahead. If you're not sure, I can see if I can help at no charge.

[OddRomanian]

Your area is Madrid, my area. Who is the expert? If he is Pedro Fono, go ahead, but he will charge his money for that. I could do it for you for free, but I'm just a fan, not an expert, although I understand these soundboxes very well. Nevertheless I need to see first if the box is repairable or not, if it has swelling problems, etc, which could be the reason for it not working properly. I don't want to take unnecessary risks with something that is not mine... If he's Pedro and the price is ok for you, go ahead. If you're not sure, I can see if I can help at no charge.

Yeah, he is Pedro Fono, he'll do a good job you say?

Anyhow, he is going on vacation and comes back mid-November, but maybe I would like for you to try repairing It!

I'm not sure yet, for now could meet up so you could tell me if It's repairable and If It has a broken diaphragm?

I could meet up wednesday (tomorrow)

Don't worry if you can't and I'm sorry for bothering you!

Many thanks!

[Inigo]

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