WTB - English Victor "Gramophne"

[KC Kent]

Many years ago I sold a small (about Victor E size) machine - see attached picture. Although mine had a different horn, I believe this is an English model that came originally with a small green panel horn. Since I'm a "decal guy" per the late Charles Tyler, I'd love to acquire another one. Any leads appreciated

Thanks

Kent kent@schoneman.net

[Victor guy1]

I have the same model. It is a HMV baby monarch. The baby monarch was produced from 1905 to 1910. (1905 to 1908 had 7 inch turntables) Different markings for where is was made, mine was made in Germany and has the standard HMV logo on it, while this one seems to be made in the UK because of the banner on it. Very rare phonograph. This one is mine.

[Orchorsol]

I believe this is correctly called the New Victor model, baby monarch being a "nickname".

One just sold at auction here in the UK yesterday, along with a Celeste portable (the first WW1 trench gramophone?) https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 6875570b11

I have two New Victors, one with the panel horn (in very worn, almost derelict condition but working), the other with the part-covered brass horn (nicely restored many years ago). Both have their original small turntable (I remember reading that these are sometimes found with 10 inch turntables which owners fitted later).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJmk7wrfih4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_ZLUbvLLo
I would consider parting with either, but shipping to the US is prohibitive!

[Steve]

One just sold at auction here in the UK yesterday, along with a Celeste portable (the first WW1 trench gramophone?) https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 6875570b11

I have two New Victors, one with the panel horn (in very worn, almost derelict condition but working), the other with the part-covered brass horn (nicely restored many years ago). Both have their original small turntable (I remember reading that these are sometimes found with 10 inch turntables which owners fitted later).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJmk7wrfih4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_ZLUbvLLo
I would consider parting with either, but shipping to the US is prohibitive!

Yes, I was the underbidder on that lot! I already have the "taurus" version with the large Nipper decal to the front of the cabinet and small brass witches hat horn. I would like a "scotia" version with unique MG horn (hence why I bid 2 days ago) but it would have to be a very good / pristine condition example.

The one just sold looked good but was missing the G & T soundbox, a fact which no doubt helped keep the price lower, however the curiously short-sighted decision by the auctioneers to lump it together with, of all things, a Celeste "Trench" model kept it slightly above my top bid. If I didn't already own a "Trench" it might have been different. But why in heaven's name not just split the two very different machines into two lots? I might have got the New Victor and the vendor might have got a better price for the "Trench"! Another example of auctioneer's cluelessness.

Regarding the later larger turntables, I recall HMV updated these machines with 10" type and were forced to move the speed control accordingly whch meant cutting a notch out of the internal rear corner of the cabinets. I'm not sure it was simply the owners retrofitting?

[Orchorsol]

One just sold at auction here in the UK yesterday, along with a Celeste portable (the first WW1 trench gramophone?) https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 6875570b11

I have two New Victors, one with the panel horn (in very worn, almost derelict condition but working), the other with the part-covered brass horn (nicely restored many years ago). Both have their original small turntable (I remember reading that these are sometimes found with 10 inch turntables which owners fitted later).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJmk7wrfih4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_ZLUbvLLo
I would consider parting with either, but shipping to the US is prohibitive!

Yes, I was the underbidder on that lot! I already have the "taurus" version with the large Nipper decal to the front of the cabinet and small brass witches hat horn. I would like a "scotia" version with unique MG horn (hence why I bid 2 days ago) but it would have to be a very good / pristine condition example.

The one just sold looked good but was missing the G & T soundbox, a fact which no doubt helped keep the price lower, however the curiously short-sighted decision by the auctioneers to lump it together with, of all things, a Celeste "Trench" model kept it slightly above my top bid. If I didn't already own a "Trench" it might have been different. But why in heaven's name not just split the two very different machines into two lots? I might have got the New Victor and the vendor might have got a better price for the "Trench"! Another example of auctioneer's cluelessness.

Regarding the later larger turntables, I recall HMV updated these machines with 10" type and were forced to move the speed control accordingly whch meant cutting a notch out of the internal rear corner of the cabinets. I'm not sure it was simply the owners retrofitting?

Ah, I'm sure you're right Steve, thank you, I have a poor memory for such things!

Out of interest (as always!) what is meant by "Taurus" in that context, and is there any more to know about that version? Was it the earlier type as one might guess?

[Steve]

One just sold at auction here in the UK yesterday, along with a Celeste portable (the first WW1 trench gramophone?) https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auct ... 6875570b11

I have two New Victors, one with the panel horn (in very worn, almost derelict condition but working), the other with the part-covered brass horn (nicely restored many years ago). Both have their original small turntable (I remember reading that these are sometimes found with 10 inch turntables which owners fitted later).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJmk7wrfih4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_ZLUbvLLo
I would consider parting with either, but shipping to the US is prohibitive!

Yes, I was the underbidder on that lot! I already have the "taurus" version with the large Nipper decal to the front of the cabinet and small brass witches hat horn. I would like a "scotia" version with unique MG horn (hence why I bid 2 days ago) but it would have to be a very good / pristine condition example.

The one just sold looked good but was missing the G & T soundbox, a fact which no doubt helped keep the price lower, however the curiously short-sighted decision by the auctioneers to lump it together with, of all things, a Celeste "Trench" model kept it slightly above my top bid. If I didn't already own a "Trench" it might have been different. But why in heaven's name not just split the two very different machines into two lots? I might have got the New Victor and the vendor might have got a better price for the "Trench"! Another example of auctioneer's cluelessness.

Regarding the later larger turntables, I recall HMV updated these machines with 10" type and were forced to move the speed control accordingly whch meant cutting a notch out of the internal rear corner of the cabinets. I'm not sure it was simply the owners retrofitting?

Ah, I'm sure you're right Steve, thank you, I have a poor memory for such things!

Out of interest (as always!) what is meant by "Taurus" in that context, and is there any more to know about that version? Was it the earlier type as one might guess?

The taurus version refers to the shape of the motorboard and plinth edge moldings. It is slightly less common and identical to the machine in the second video you provided links to and yes, it is the earlier version, though not the first New Victor, of course.

[Orchorsol]

Many thanks Steve! Always learning.