Where are the phonographs in Paris?

[alang]

I hope I did not hurt anyone's feelings with my earlier post. I only wanted to describe my observations when reading through some German forums. I know from your contributions to this forum that you have some amazing machines in beautifull Jugendstil and Art Deco. But because of the wars etc in Europe the number of surviving examples is much more limited than in the US and a new collector would have a hard time finding correct and affordable machines, aside from maybe portables. Here in the US you can find many nice smaller machines for a few hundred dollars, especially if you are willing to put a little cleanup work into it. That's why I only collected 78s while still living in Germany and have only started to collect machines since I moved to the US.
Andreas

[syncopeter]

Also we tend to throw away 'old' stuff in Europe, because we simply don't have the space to keep it. And in most of Europe post WW1 gramophones were luxury items anyhow. The Victrola model XIV hugely outsold the comparable HMV models. We simply couldn't afford them. Many horn gramophones were probably already converted when still in regular use. Cheaper to change the motor than buy a new mainspring. Easier to take the soundbox from one with a broken motor than replace the mica diaphragm. Originality didn't count in those days. Saving money DID.

[Steve]

There are not many nice machines left in Europe. Anything of worth has been sold to the Far East

This is so true. You only have to look at UK, French, German, Dutch and Italian Ebays to see this. Millions of standard black case HMV and off-brand portables, thousands of Crapophones and a fair quota of ugly cabinet machines - Gilbert, you are the greatest offender here! Where are the likes of the machines Rene has just bought? They aren't sitting up in grannies attic anymore, let's put it that way.

Rene's mahogany Trademark is stunning though and probably the best original machine I've ever seen! Congratulations on a very special purchase. I note you mention the 'French catalogues'; would there be any possibility of a few scans here and there? I have not seen any of the early French catalogues but I'm curious to know how many models they produced in mahogany and for how long? The new HMV book does not even venture outside the safe world of the UK home market - everything in boring oak, in other words!

Regarding Phonogalerie, all I can add is that whilst I've never visited in person I have bought two Pathé machines from Jalal, one an oak Diffusor table model with louvred lid, the other a 'Jeunesse' in near mint condition. Whilst the former was comparatively cheap to most examples on Ebay (and the diaphragm is mint), the latter was hellishly expensive.

However, I should point out that condition and originality is everything with talking machines. You might finder cheaper examples elsewhere that might satisfy your cravings but they will never be as good as finding the real deal: a totally untinkered with machine in stunning original condition. Machines of this condition will most likely hold their value when everything else slips.

BTW, I must apologize to the moderators if this post has already appeared as a 'guest' post for moderation. My PC logs me out everytime even though I request to stay logged in and I never realized that I had become 'guest' whilst typing.

[syncopeter]

We now want machines as original as possible. Back then people wanted their machines to play. Only the very rich could afford original parts. HMV was a premium brand anyhow, only available for the really well-to-do. The top models cost as much as a detached house, that is why so few were sold. In the U.S.A Victrola cabinet models were sold by the 10,000s, in Europe by the 100s. Of the largest Re-entrant model the 202/203 no more than a few hundred were ever made. Of the most popular one, the model 163, probably no more than 5,000. Just compare that with the Credenza.
There are quite probably more Victor horn gramophones left than there were ever HMV counter parts made.
We tended to go for portables, radio wasn't a big issue like it was in the States until after WW2. Depression hit us later but lasted longer, actually right up to the war, but records kept being sold. In fact more records were sold in the early 30s in Europe than in the U.S. Far more. Bands recorded especially for the European market. Jazz almost died during that period. In Europe it still sold like hot cakes. You had radio, we played records on our portables. That is why those little suitcase models are so plentiful and you will find so many American records over here.
And Paris was THE place where it all happened in the 30s. Berlin had been taken over by the Nazi's and was no longer friendly to foreign influences.

[bbphonoguy]

I hope that you don't spend too much time looking for machines. I've always wanted to see Paris, and have to admit, if I was there phonos would probably not enter my mind. I'd definitely do all the tourist things, the arch of triumph, Eiffel Tower, Notre Dame, the old opera house (not the new one..yech!), Versailles....

[Steve]

........and last but not least, Pierre Lachaise cemetery. Visit the graves of Oscar Wilde, Edith Piaf and..er..Jim Morrison too if you like. Just don't do it on 3rd July as it's the 40th Anniversary of the latters death and I'd expect quite a crowd gathering there including a few notable 'rock celebrities'!

[TinfoilPhono]

Here's one page from a French "Gramophones et Accessoires" catalog (undated).



Note that they offered the machine with small nickel-plated metal motor cover like the Victor A, or a wooden case in either mahogany ('acajou') or walnut ('noyer') like the trademark, at the same price. Copper horns are referenced on another page ("pavillon en cuivre poli ou nickelé, au gré du client") -- horn of polished copper or nickel-plated, at the customer's choice.

The condition of this machine is truly remarkable, original down to the turntable felt and leather elbow. (The horn has been polished and lacquered.)

Edit to add: You can combine routine tourism with phonographs. If you go up to the top level of the Eiffel Tower you'll see Eiffel's apartment, in which is displayed the spectacle Class M phonograph that Edison presented to Eiffel in September 1889. The wax figures of Edison, Eiffel, and Eiffel's daughter are very lifelike:

[bbphonoguy]

Eiffel had an apartment at the top of the Eiffel tower? How cool is that!!?

[beaumonde]

Wow, what an interesting thread.

Rene, that Berliner is fantastic!

[papafred]

Last trip to Paris went to the top of the Eiffel Tower to see the Class M. Don't know what the value of the Class M would be, but too see it, the life like fiqures of Edison and Eiffel and the view of Paris, priceless. Don't know if the tower is open at night, that would be the view.