HMV 157

[brianu]

Only reason I can think of, is the machine was sold by La voix de son maître (HMV France).
Does the trademark decal indicate the machine was made in England?

The machine was also on eBay with more photos - it was definitely French hmv, and a pretty nice example at that.

[syncopeter]

The 157 was quite probably the loudest of all cabinet machines, just because of its shorter horn. My experience is that a longer (and wider) horn improves bass response and tone dissipation but reduces volume, maybe because of the greater spread. A smaller horn tends to be more 'in your face'. Any mahogany 157 for under 300 euro in Europe would be considered an absolute steal. An average oak one does at least 600 euro.

[need4art]

Well Brian,
The lady was neither uneducated or desperate-bad assumption on your part. I saw that you were attempting to work out something on the machine from your ebay posting and I notice that you purchase and sell machines on a somewhat regular basis. I do not-in fact I have not sold 1 machine in the 5 years that I have in the hobby. This machine needs some restoration work and since that's what I do for a living I have been trying to avoid buying machines that need work. I do not do "quick jobs" each of the 3 machines that I have redone have taken about 200 hours each.
The truth is that the lady has worked at both the MET and at the Fields and we had something in common. I showed how the machine worked and talked about what I would do to it-but I was NOT going to buy it until she offered to GIVE it to me because I knew about the machine-and folks on the board helped me to understand about it. She had done some research, visited Proudfoot's websight and was not uneducated about it. It was than that I made her the offer.
In addition there was 5 hours of my time, and $60.00 in gas.

I have noted at times that members use this chat board to take potshots at each other- that is not what I see it for-exchange of information, support in what has a very small collector base and help that is what it is for. Yes I posted a price but I know that I will put more into the machine. Re-plating, repair of the repoducer, and time and materials to do what needs to be done to the cabinet. Perhaps that is something you do not understand or value. In any case if I was going to sell the machine at some point it would not be to....

Abe

[David Spanovich]

The 157 was quite probably the loudest of all cabinet machines, just because of its shorter horn. My experience is that a longer (and wider) horn improves bass response and tone dissipation but reduces volume, maybe because of the greater spread. A smaller horn tends to be more 'in your face'. Any mahogany 157 for under 300 euro in Europe would be considered an absolute steal. An average oak one does at least 600 euro.

That's a very interesting observation. I've noted that too for some pre-Orthophonic models and a few off-brand machines. But, in comparing a couple of Orthophonic Victrolas I owned in the past--a Credenza and a Consolette--the Credenza's overall apparent volume seemed about twice as loud, even though the same sound box was used for comparison purposes.

In the case of the 157, which was fitted with a horn divided into two sections--as opposed to four sections for the larger models--it's possible that the transmission of the upper and mid-range frequencies was more efficient. Whether any errors (in the exponential taper) were introduced in folding the horn in two, I don't know. The Orthophonic Victrola 8-12 model apparently had this issue, according to Robert Baumbach -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/8-12.htm -- though it had the opposite effect of suppressing the upper frequencies.

DS

[brianu]

Well Brian,
The lady was neither uneducated or desperate-bad assumption on your part. I saw that you were attempting to work out something on the machine from your ebay posting and I notice that you purchase and sell machines on a somewhat regular basis. I do not-in fact I have not sold 1 machine in the 5 years that I have in the hobby. This machine needs some restoration work and since that's what I do for a living I have been trying to avoid buying machines that need work. I do not do "quick jobs" each of the 3 machines that I have redone have taken about 200 hours each.
The truth is that the lady has worked at both the MET and at the Fields and we had something in common. I showed how the machine worked and talked about what I would do to it-but I was NOT going to buy it until she offered to GIVE it to me because I knew about the machine-and folks on the board helped me to understand about it. She had done some research, visited Proudfoot's websight and was not uneducated about it. It was than that I made her the offer.
In addition there was 5 hours of my time, and $60.00 in gas.

I have noted at times that members use this chat board to take potshots at each other- that is not what I see it for-exchange of information, support in what has a very small collector base and help that is what it is for. Yes I posted a price but I know that I will put more into the machine. Re-plating, repair of the repoducer, and time and materials to do what needs to be done to the cabinet. Perhaps that is something you do not understand or value. In any case if I was going to sell the machine at some point it would not be to....

Abe

I actually was in touch with her since it was first posted on ebay and the only thing I was finalizing was transportation for it. I was more than happy to pay her asking price which, at 250, I think was incredibly fair, if not low. I was fine, however, with the fact that someone else closer to it got it before I did, it's happened to me numerous times before and it will again to be sure. so be it. no "pot shots" were intended at all because of that. I simply found it lame how, even after the discussion generated here in terms of value, the fact that her asking price was incredibly low, that someone - even such as yourself, a restorationist by trade who had done the research and was familiar with the relative scarcity and worth of this machine - would still make a lowball offer (regardless of the gas, the 200 mile drive and the worn nickel plating). it just struck me as cheap... perhaps because I've dealt with too many people mainly through craigslist who just can't pay an asking price, no matter how low, and must get it for less to be happy.

[need4art]

Brian,
If you look at dates I had contacted her before I posted the question about it on the forum. That being said I let the ebay listing go full course and then some before recontacting her in case you could work out transport. To be honest you guys in the East seem to have machines to trip over. When I was visiting my son on Long Island as we were headed to the city I saw a really nice Victor XVI sitting curbside. I stopped go out rang the door bell and was told it was going to the trash. I picked it up, spent a couple of hours cleaning it up, doing springs etc and its at my sons house. Its in better shape than the one I spent $600.00 for.That never ever happens in Az. I go nuts looking at East city Cragslists.

But you are right about Craigslist and I look at it as a clearing center. We post some things from home and from my retail business and we figure what we get is what the public sets the price at.

This lady inherited the HMV and she just wanted to see it go to a good home. Condition wise I was not head over heels in it but since she would have GIVEN it to me what ever I gave her she was happy-and Brian if you saw her house all 7000 sq ft of it she did not need the money. I will just donate more to my next Rotary project.

To me a good deal is good for everyone concerned-she was happy-I was happy-I think- I still have to work on it. That's whats important not what some "thing" is worth.

Abe

[brianu]

true, you're right. I think my frustration with craigslist and ebay of late just gets the better of me at times. I've been getting rid of a lot of stuff over the past few years, not just phonographs, and only buying now and then... but it's involved dealing with a lot of email, people, attitudes and flakes that leave much to be desired. and it's just left me with this pet peeve about offers that are always lower than the asking price, regardless of how low that asking price is. whatever, the hmv clearly found an appreciative home and won't languish in that 7000 square foot house's basement, garage or worse, garden shed, or as some other buyers new bar. good luck with it.

[Steve]

The 157 was quite probably the loudest of all cabinet machines

Really? Why do you say that? I've had all these machines and can't agree with that statement at all. The 157 might sound louder to some ears but only because it accentuates the high frequencies due to its lack of bottom end and lower frequencies. As we all know from music reproduced from CD, higher frequencies can make a recording appear to sound louder even though from a decibel point of measurement, it isn't.

[need4art]

Brian, Thx for a good ending to this story-its important (at least to me) to be involved in a hobby that has postive people and networking going on. I have gone over with others to look at machines that I did not know about at the CAPS show and have worked with Jerry Blias on at least 1 project and with his help he not only looked at the machine he brought it over to me.

Through this forum have met Penman-George, teamed up at CAPS and now there is another machine here in Arizona that I am trying to run down and he will go and look at that one with me. He has forgotten more about this stuff than I will ever know. For me that's what this is all about. The people first-the rest of the stuff after.

Abe