Graphophone Q winding down too fast.

[debndunk]

I have just bought a Graphophone Q and overhauled it and replaced the main spring but it will not play a cylinder all through on one wind is this normal for these machines? Thank you Gordon.

[Brad]

Hi Gordon,

Welcome to the board. I too have experienced the same with my Q that I replaced the mainspring. Sometimes it makes it, sometimes not, and it appears to be dependent on the cylinder I am playing.

Not sure why, but it doesn't bother me, I realize it was a cheap machine in it's day and do not expect stellar performance from it. I just think it is fun to play.

[Phonofreak]

On my Q, sometimes it can't play a cylinder all the way. My spring is still good. These were cheap machines in the day, and I wouldn't use it to play serious records on them. They sure are cute.
Harvey Kravitz

[debndunk]

Hi fella's, I thought that might be the case, you've put my mind at rest . Thanks for the info Gordon.

[VintageTechnologies]

I have a "Q" that plays all the way through, so I expect they all did originally. I wonder if the repro springs match the originals in thickness and temper? Besides the spring, everything else has to be adjusted to be optimal. It does not take much resistance of any kind to bog down the motor a bit. Is the leather belt too tight, or the leather too thick and stiff? What size horn are you using?

[debndunk]

Hi, thanks for your input. All the running gears are turning freely and the belt is thin and soft so maybe it is the main spring. I am using a small cone horn and I have tried a small aluminium horn I don't think they can be the problem. I got the new main spring from Waytt's maybe I could try a longer clock spring?

[MicaMonster]

Ok, time for cantankerous me to chime in. The springs from Wyatt's Musical Americana SHOULD work for you.....I suspect they *might* be the same as the springs from Ron Sitko, which in my experience are of the perfect length and thickness. But, then again......I am just assuming. On one complete wind, a "Q" should play through (are you sitting down?) one and ½ records.

Some phonograph parts suppliers order clock springs and modify them willy-nilly to work on a phonograph. This is faux pas. Ron Sitko puts the spring barrel width, diameter, and center winding arbor into calculated consideration to find the correct spring length, width, and thickness.

ASSUMING your spring barrel is in good order.............here are a few other things on a "Q" to look into:

1. Governor springs. Make sure all 3 are a matched set. When installing the springs, make sure that each has a slight pre-bend in them. This is achieved by attaching the weight, then bending the spring into a "C" gently...this will leave a little pre-bend behind.

2. Governor weights. Graphophone springs have a tendency to corrode and lose mass. Use a digital laboratory scale, and make sure that they are all nearly the same weight. File off a little from heavier ones....to equalize balance the set.

3. Governor friction disc. Sometimes these get VERY varnished with old oil. Use lacquer thinner and a Q-tip to wipe off any old varnish, and lubricate your friction leather with a drop of sewing machine oil.

4. Mandrel bearings. Remove the mandrel, and put a drop of oil on the inner bearing surface on the mounting shaft, and on the end where the pulley is. Mandrel should spin very freely.

5. A drop of oil should be put on the feedscrew to lubricate between the feedscrew threads and the half-nut on the reproducer carriage.

6. Reproducer. The original "Q" reproducer is a lightweight aluminium unit. If you have a heavier (wider=heavier) reproducer, it is highly likely that the reproducer is too heavy, creating too much friction with the record. This is the #1 problem I have run into.

I hope this all helps. I've probably rebuilt 30-40 of these in my life....and each one was a compleat headache.

If all else fails...... I can fix it for you. Unfortunately that will involve the burning of incense, and the sacrificial melting of an Edison wax cylinder in front of a lithograph print of Edward Easton.

Cheers,

-Wyatt

[Valecnik]

MicaMonster's suggestions are all good and correct. However the best way to end your frustrations with a Graphophone Q, or Edison GEM for that matter, is to buy a Triumph. Most likely, unless it's been dropped out of an aeroplane, it will work when you get it and work just as well in 10 years. Put the Q on a shelf and admire it while you are playing the Triumph.

[HisMastersVoice]

Put the Q on a shelf and admire it while you are playing the Triumph.

Doesn't anyone around here have an opinion?

[Brad]

Wyatt,

Good suggestion about the gov. weights. I hadn't thought about that, but it makes sense. As to reproducer weight, I know I have repro repro. Are the repro repros generally too heavy? Do you (or anyone) know what the optimum weight range should be?

Bruce,

I actually get better motor performance from my Q than from my triumph. The triumph will run smooth and quiet for over 20 minutes on a full wind with the repro disengaged. Start playing and I am lucky if I get ⅔ of the way through. Lower the repro with no cylinder, and it runs to the end with no observable change in speed.

After lots of futzin' my triumph has become the shelf jewelry.