HMV 145 Questions

[CptBob]

I bought my 145 from an eBay vendor about three weeks ago. It's generally working well and sounds as good as I'd expected, however there are some things about it that I'm not quite sure about.

The thing that's worrying me most is the winder. The crank estucheon is screwed in but when the crank is being turned the screws work their way out of the holes. This can't be right, can it? My 101 feels a lot more solid.


IMG_5691c by RWPD, on Flickr


Sorry about the picture quality. The 101 has an estucheon on either side of the cabinet and the two are held together by two bolts. Is the 145 missing something?

The motor has been making clunking noises, and following advice on the UK forum, I took the motor board out and left it in the conservatory, it must have been the first warm day since March. (FWIW, I tried to register on the UK forum, got as far as making my first post and then got locked out. I'm assuming that was just a glitch). Anyway, taking the motor out and warming it hasn't seemed to have helped the clunking, which mainly happens at the tight end of the spring. Perhaps it wasn't hot enough. Is this dangerous?

The other thing that's a bit worrying is that it went through a phase where the speed wasn't constant. I think it was after I changed the speed setting. It seems to have settled down now. I gave the friction leathers a good drop of oil. Perhaps that's slolved the problem.

Finally - is there something missing from the motor? The pictures below are of part of the motor and the oiling diagram.


IMG_5466 by RWPD, on Flickr


IMG_5465 by RWPD, on Flickr

On the diagram there seems to be an extra plate near the governer that is missing from the machine. Is this an important part, or is it something that's in the diagram but doesn't exist on that particular motor?

Cheers

Robert

Edited to try to get rid of extraneous text around pictures

[Uncle Vanya]

That "missing"part is the speed indicator mechanism which was not used on your machine as yours was fitted with the self-indicating "Murray" speed control.

[Phono48]

I'm afraid that just warming the springs is only a temporary fix,and won't free them of the hardened grease that is causing the "clonking" noise. When the springs are removed from their drums, they usually have to be soaked in petrol overnight to partially soften the grease, and then scraped with a chisel. That stuff is like cement! You're going to have to remove both springs, (or get them done for you), and get them cleaned up. In the state they are in now, there is a real chance they will break. If you have'nt done this job before, leave it to someone who has, as with springs of this size, things can get dangerous!

Barry

[Guest]

Warming the motor is bad advise from a lazy backyard restorer. To properly fix the problem, you MUST remove the spring from the barrel, clean the spring & barrel, and reload the spring along with fresh grease.

[epigramophone]

I had the same problem with the winding handle escutcheon on my HMV145. Replacing the screws with suitable nuts and bolts cured the problem permanently. I also fitted washers between the nuts and the inside of the cabinet.
As others have mentioned, the bumping noises from your motor are caused by hardened grease. HMV used a graphited grease which is particularly prone to hardening in old age, whereas Garrard motors are seldom troubled in this way.

[CptBob]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I need to get the motor overhaulled. It's not a job I'd like to take on myself. Does anyone have a recommendation for someone to undertake this in the southern half of the UK? I'd prefer to take the machine or motor board myself, rather than post it.

[epigramophone]

I live in the West Country, but my usual repairer Philip Knighton is seriously ill and I do not know when he is likely to resume work.

Another West Country dealer/repairer I can recommend is John Sleep [email protected] who is based near Newquay in Cornwall.

[Frankia]

I have recently had springs regreased by Ian Maxted. He has also worked on soundboxes for me. The result in all cases has been very much to my liking. He lives in the Hampton Court Palace area of London. Landline 0208 0412910. Mobile 07725533142
Hope this is of some help.

[Uncle Vanya]

The HMV No. 32 motor is identical in all but detail to the Victor "Burton" motor. I have rebuilt literally HUNDREDS if these simple, powerful units. If you can hold a screwdriver it is within your capacity to rebuild this nearly foolproof motor.

HERE:
http://www.victor-victrola.com/Repair.htm

is a basic introduction to troubleshooting these motors.

HERE:
http://www.intertique.com/VictrolaRepair.html

is another useful site.

HERE:
http://repairvictrola.tripod.com/vvxiadisassembly.htm

is yet another site which details the work.



For starters, you could run the motor COMPLETELY down, and remove the shaft on which the spring barrels turn. This shaft may be removed by backing out the set-screw which prevents it from turning in the motor frame, and gently driving the shaft out from the center of the spring barrel. The barrel will come out of the frame, retaining both the winding gear (the gear with the ratchet assembly) and the "Bull Gear", the large gear which drives the turntable spindle. In most cases it is not absolutely necessary to remove these gears, and so they may be retained in the barrel by passing a wire through the center hole and tying it off in a loop. The spring barrel should then be placed in a container of Dextron automatic transmission fluid and allowed to soak for several days. A dark container is useful, for one can place it in a sunny place and the summer sunshine will heat the fluid, speeding its action. After the unit has been allowed to soak for some time, it may be removed from the Dextron and drained of excess fluid. Replace it in the motor, wind the motor and allow it to fully run down several times, and you will most probably have a quiet motor.

The gears may be lubricated with light grease, the pivots with a quality light oil, and the governor leather (the little thing that rubs against the governor disc when the motor is running up to speed) may be lightly roughed up with an emery board and lubricated with a drop of oil.

[CptBob]

Thanks all for your replies. I've looked at Uncle Vanya's link and gulped a bit. It's something I'd like to tackle myself, but I want a gramophone that works at the end of the day.