Amberola III

phonogfp · Post by **phonogfp** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:29 pm

Yes - I've pondered that passage in Frow and wondered if it could possibly be true. The Amberola III was introduced in August 1912, so presumably over 4 months' production would have had black horns. I've never seen one (but I'm not saying they don't exist). Surely No.101 would have been produced in the first 4 months of Amberola III production, so what's the story? Is there black paint beneath your horn's wood grain?

Frow cites other cases where certain decisions were made, but never followed up. This may have been one of those times.

I also note that your mahogany machine has gold/brownish grille cloth. I have a B-250 with the same combination. It's obvious that there's no hard and fast rule about cloth color and wood type.

This has turned into an interesting thread!

George P.

Yamaphone · Post by **Yamaphone** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:19 pm

I just examined the horn on my Amberola III (No. 101) and can find no traces of black paint.It seems that it always had the wood-grain paint. Other observations: outside of horn (part inside back of cabinet) also wood-grained but much lower quality - Wood-grain paint on horn neck (inside and out) not adhering as well as bell section although the section that enters the area under the lid seems fine.
Dan Z.

phonogfp · Post by **phonogfp** » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:15 pm

Dan,

That sounds like the horn of my III in every respect! The upper part of my horn is painted with the same brown enamel used on the mechanism, and that has aged better than the rest of the horn.

George P.

Valecnik · Post by **Valecnik** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:23 pm

phonogfp wrote:Thanks, Shawn - A-150s are neat machines.

Valecnik wrote: My A150 has the frame, not a thread of grill cloth remaining if there was one, some small nail holes indicating there might have been a frame but not a thread of cloth remaining...
I just checked my A-150 (No.6087) and the grille never had a frame for cloth, but there are once again traces of cloth stuck in shellac. The machine is oak with a light brown turntable felt, and the cloth appears to be brown/orange, so that would make sense. I don't care if this A-150 originally had a grille cloth or not - - I'm not covering the grain painted horn!

George P.

My A150 is sn is "SM 1062" on the tag and on the bedplate "1062-A3", oak with light brown felt on the TT. The grain painted horn won't be covered with a grill cloth as long as I own it. It never had the mute ball, by the way. It's got the reproducer with the felt disc muting device inside, a real sound stopper, open or closed.

phonogfp wrote:
Valecnik wrote:Interesting. Your III seems to have had a grill cloth from day one.

My oak III does not have the frame, no nail holes and no indication that there was ever anything glued to the back of the grill, not one thread.
Here's a question: What's the serial number of your oak III? And does it have the early Amberola lid decal?

Earlier today I saw another mahogany III in a collection; serial number around 1050, and with the same traces of grille cloth/frame. (My III is No.593.) I wonder if there's an early vs. late production component at work here, or if different cabinet suppliers finished the grilles differently and were supplied different lid decals (possibly due to early vs. later contracts?).

George P.

My III, also oak is "SM 1293" with "1286-A3" stamped on the straight edge. Later Edison script decal. I'm not seeing much of a pattern emerging here...
,

Jerry B. · Post by **Jerry B.** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:43 pm

My mahogany III is serial number 466 on both the ID tag and on the mechanism. It has the later "Edison" decal, a wood-grained horn and traces of a grill cloth.

Valecnik · Post by **Valecnik** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:47 pm

Yamaphone wrote:I just examined the horn on my Amberola III (No. 101) and can find no traces of black paint.It seems that it always had the wood-grain paint. Other observations: outside of horn (part inside back of cabinet) also wood-grained but much lower quality - Wood-grain paint on horn neck (inside and out) not adhering as well as bell section although the section that enters the area under the lid seems fine.
Dan Z.

Some other observations on Edison wood graining of the early Amberolas and diamond discs. The quality of the original artwork seems to vary widely. My A300 walnut was rather poorly done but the original paint adheres very well. The wood graining on my a250 in oak is incredibly detailed and adheres almost perfectly. My A250 in mahogany has mediocre quality but well adhering wood graining on the bell of the horn. The lower half of the elbow, below the solder joint has almost no paint left at all!

Would love to see some detailed pics of no. 101 too Dan if you are able by the way!

phonogfp · Post by **phonogfp** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:55 pm

Jerry B. wrote:My mahogany III is serial number 466 on both the ID tag and on the mechanism. It has the later "Edison" decal, a wood-grained horn and traces of a grill cloth.

Aha... There doesn't seem to be a correlation between serial numbers and "Amberola" vs. "Edison" lid decals. I suspect one cabinet manufacturer (possibly Pooley since they were building 1B cabinets) had a large inventory of the "Amberola" decals which the Phonograph Division told them to exhaust. When another supplier was awarded a contract, Edison must have supplied the "Edison" decal.

George P.

Yamaphone · Post by **Yamaphone** » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:36 pm

As requested, here are a few more photos of Amberola III No. 101. Taking good pictures (for me at least) is not that easy.
The mechanism seems to be the same as all that followed it however there are several differences in the cabinet. It appears that an effort was made to dress up the cabinet a bit with additional molding etc. but I think this was done at the expense of the curved lower part of the legs which would have been more costly to manufacture than the straight style that followed. I tried to get a good photo of this detail.
Dan Z.