Edison Home B

[FellowCollector]

I believe you mentioned you could not get it to maintain speed (evenly) after lowering the reproducer early in this thread and later that the phonograph slows down about halfway through a cylinder.

Assuming the motor has a strong spring and runs quietly and evenly under no resistance (ie. with the belt removed) and you see absolutely zero variation in the spinning governor weights, no gears / pinions are noticeably worn or are otherwise not meshing properly, the drive pulley is tight on its shaft and spins evenly and the drive pulley idler wheel spins freely then it sounds like the motor may be eliminated as a culprit.

The leather drive belt MUST be under the correct tension to drive the upper pulley and works properly. Too tight and you will experience exactly what you are describing. Too loose and the lower drive pulley could slip. Since your upper pulley has the internal planetary gear for 2 / 4 minute operation you must be certain that this gear is able to spin properly and easily. AND, you must be certain that you have fully engaged either 2 OR 4 minute setting for the upper pulley assembly to operate properly.

You already mention that your feed nut is meshing properly with the feedscrew and you have the downward tension from the carriage on the feed nut assembly properly adjusted so there is ZERO drag during play. So we may eliminate that.

You have probably lightly lubricated the feedscrew threads and adjusted / oiled the bearings on either end of the feedscrew shaft so that the top works spin freely without the belt installed. So without the belt installed you should be able to spin the mandrel and it should rotate MANY revolutions quietly and evenly.

As most have mentioned above, these are the critical parts to check and I'm sure there are more I missed but if you have done all of this then it really should operate properly. I cannot stress enough that you assure the belt tension is correct. I once had an Edison Standard that confounded me for hours and I finally realized I had the belt too tight of all things.

Good luck. - Doug

[debndunk]

Thanks for everything you have said. Everything you have said I have checked several times, all I can do is make another belt a little bigger and try that.
Gordon.

[Andersun]

Thanks for everything you have said. Everything you have said I have checked several times, all I can do is make another belt a little bigger and try that.
Gordon.

Maybe you can tighten the motor mounts to loosen the belt a little.....

[FellowCollector]

If you decide to make a new belt try bypassing the spring loaded idler wheel associated with the lower pulley. In other words, try measuring and cutting your belt to size WITHOUT the idler wheel included. Let the idler wheel temporarily rest against the lower pulley and wrap the leather belt around only the 2 pulleys and allow for the proper belt tension. When you are done, try installing the belt WITHOUT the idler pulley pressing on the belt...in other words pulled away temporarily from the drive pulley. This will eliminate the idler pulley as a problem. Finally, after you have installed the new belt look down from the top pulley to assure that the lower pulley and the top pulley are perfectly aligned and the belt is not constrained in any way.

[debndunk]

Hi Doug, thanks for all the input. I have check everything you said so many times. Like with all these machines the fault is probably starring me in the face. like Andersun advised I have tried tightening the motor mounts to give a bit more slack on the belt and that didn't work. I have worked on about 25 phonographs, stripping and cleaning them but none have ever got to me like this one. I have just made a bigger belt gonna leave it all night for the glue to set. I will let you know what happens. Avery frustrated Gordon.

[Lucius1958]

Bill,
Is your Home a Suitcase or Long Case model A? I think the wheel was removed from the long case Model A. It's been a while since I have worked on a long case model Home so I am not sure.

Steve

It's a long case A, manufactured December 1904.

Bill

[NEFaurora]

Pretty Sure Dec. 1904 is way too late for a Long case Model "A"... Long Case Model "A" Homes were manufactured around the 1901-1902 timeframe period. By 1903, They were already onto producing the Home Model B's. I have a 1903 Home Model "B" and a 1904 Home Model "B". - Both have Non-Red Banner decals.

Tony K.

[VintageTechnologies]

Hi Doug, thanks for all the input. I have check everything you said so many times. Like with all these machines the fault is probably starring me in the face. like Andersun advised I have tried tightening the motor mounts to give a bit more slack on the belt and that didn't work. I have worked on about 25 phonographs, stripping and cleaning them but none have ever got to me like this one. I have just made a bigger belt gonna leave it all night for the glue to set. I will let you know what happens. Avery frustrated Gordon.

It's time for me to chime in about the belt issue. I just tuned up an Edison Standard that I bought recently. The machine would play 2 records on a full wind. The idler wheel was not engaged and the belt was tight enough that I was afraid it would break trying to slip it off over the raised pully rims. With the belt off, the motor ran strong. I removed the idler mechanism to clean off the green gunk that had accumulated and clogged the idler. After reinstalling, I tensioned the idler spring for good torque. I replaced the belt with a MUCH looser one that also came with the machine and ran it under the idler. The difference was dramatic, the Standard played 5 records on a full wind! I had never seen one play more than 4. The motor had no hesitation to run when I threw the lever. Most new leather belts are too thick and too stiff and bog the motor down. A tight belt puts the motor into a bind. Both belts I tried were very thin and supple; I don't know where they came from. I would visit a leather store and look for the thinnest leather I could find that is supple and does not stretch. Kangaroo leather looks ideal, but I have only seen sheets and would have to cut strips with a straight edge. It is also VERY expensive.

[Lucius1958]

Pretty Sure Dec. 1904 is way too late for a Long case Model "A"... Long Case Model "A" Homes were manufactured around the 1901-1902 timeframe period. By 1903, They were already onto producing the Home Model B's. I have a 1903 Home Model "B" and a 1904 Home Model "B". - Both have Non-Red Banner decals.

Tony K.

No: the Model B series was not started until 1905.

Bill

[NEFaurora]

Yes, You're right. I went and did the research on this one. I am surprised. This question has come up before about when the Model B's production first started. I checked Frow, and the Edison original EPM's, and Frow says that the Model B was introduced in October 1905, and The Edison EPM does not mention it that I could find until Edison EPM issue December 1905, Page 4.

Again, I am surprised.

That means that the Home Model "A" Long Case that was introduced in 1901 ran until October 1905. For the Early machines, That is quite a long run - 5 years for the same machine. So where are they all?? - The Model "A"'s I mean... Why are we always flooded with Model B's ??? lol...????!?!?!??????? What happened to all of those Model "A" Long case machines if they were produced for so long?

That also means that my two model "B" machines are definitely 1905 early models since they both have the Gold/Black Banner decals. I think Frow mentions that the "Edison" script decals did not start until 1906.

Correct?

Thanks,

Tony K.