Anyone have a Pathéphone no.12??

[kirtley2012]

the pot metal is good on this, the breaks underneath were not from deterioration, probably from a impact, it is all strong,i have heard of the rectangular Pathé motor, what i thought was, would it have been worth getting a motor that was intended for the Pathéphone no.12 (i have heard of a few different ones) then fit that, so it will technically be original, just not to this machine..., im not too sure though.
here are some photos of what is original to this machine, as you can see, missing motor, elbow and horn....

[US PHONO]

The strip of wood where the biggest winder hole is looks like an addition?

[kirtley2012]

The strip of wood where the biggest winder hole is looks like an addition?

yes it is, it was put there to cover up the original hole for a new one to be drilled for a replacement motor in the past, from the inside of the cabinet you can see two winding holes

[Steve]

The 'other' Modele 12 shown in this thread is MUCH later, probably a good decade later, and intended for a different market altogether.

What Kirtley has is the original Modele 12 from about 1908/9, made for the French market. It is a fantastic machine and probably the best model from the second Pathé range (when numbers were introduced for the first time) anyone would find today. The bigger Modeles 14 and 16 are 'Hen's teeth' items. Of course, some years later during the WW1 era (?) Pathé reduced the number range down to about half a dozen numbers and a Modele 180 appeared that, had it existed in 1908 (?) would have been a Modele 18! Phonogalerie has at least one of these awesome beasts.

For the rest of us mere mortals, Kirtleys's '12' is probably the best we can ever expect to find. If it was complete and all original with "pavillon torsade" it would be £2500-3000 machine ($4000-4500)

[kirtley2012]

The 'other' Modele 12 shown in this thread is MUCH later, probably a good decade later, and intended for a different market altogether.

What Kirtley has is the original Modele 12 from about 1908/9, made for the French market. It is a fantastic machine and probably the best model from the second Pathé range (when numbers were introduced for the first time) anyone would find today. The bigger Modeles 14 and 16 are 'Hen's teeth' items. Of course, some years later during the WW1 era (?) Pathé reduced the number range down to about half a dozen numbers and a Modele 180 appeared that, had it existed in 1908 (?) would have been a Modele 18! Phonogalerie has at least one of these awesome beasts.

For the rest of us mere mortals, Kirtleys's '12' is probably the best we can ever expect to find. If it was complete and all original with "pavillon torsade" it would be £2500-3000 machine ($4000-4500)

..... , please excuse me whilst i pick my bottom jaw up from the floor!!

so this machine is really that rare!... to think of the situations in which i got it (i found it on gumtree, met a guy in the car park, whilst i was standing expecting to get mugged here he comes carrying this machine in his arms, handed over £35 and it was my problem) that really surprises me!

how much would one of those square motors cost?, there must be one out there somewhere!, also a horn and elbow.

what is a pavillon torsade?

[Sidewinder]

Kirtley,

Just to get your pulse rate down again, last one that sold in perfect condition with brass horn on the open market was around 1150 euro. All the extra holes and gouging inder the top board detracts somewhat from the value. Finding the spare pieces ... not so easy as the 12, 14, 16 Pathé's as spares are hens teeth.

Torsade horn is the aluminium Pathé horn that has a "twist" effect.

Pics to follow.

[kirtley2012]

Kirtley,

Just to get your pulse rate down again, last one that sold in perfect condition with brass horn on the open market was around 1150 euro. All the extra holes and gouging inder the top board detracts somewhat from the value. Finding the spare pieces ... not so easy as the 12, 14, 16 Pathé's as spares are hens teeth.

Torsade horn is the aluminium Pathé horn that has a "twist" effect.

Pics to follow.

but that is still quite alot of money for something that i paid £35 for, sure mine has alot of problems, but it didnt cost alot, for the normal cost of the Pathé reproducer, i got the whole lot

[Steve]

Kirtley

I agree with Sidewinder in as much as the Modele 12 is not a rarity in the sense of a 'standard' version with as-they-come horn fitted. I never saw the one referred to at 1150 Euros but I would be slightly sceptical about its condition as a Modele 8 with half decent horn on French eBay reliably makes that sum and sometimes more!

However the pavillon torsade is the continental equivalent to the wooden horns we hold in such high esteem over here on HMV's. However they are much rarer and more dramatic to look at! They are literally "twisted aluminium". Google the French term and you will see examples including Phonogalerie machines. Chris Baker in the UK currently has a Pathé no. 8 with one of these horns fitted to it BUT it belonged to Howard Hope before him and the horn is in very rough corroded condition and the cabinet has been poorly over-stained and messed about with. Google Chris Baker Gramophones and you'll find it. It is not expensive at £800 but what could you do with that horn? Howard wanted £1300, then £1100 for it 5 or so years ago.

I'm astonished you found a No. 12 over here in ANY condition. They were probably not sold here in that form and they were quite expensive when new. I can't imagine there are many, if any, others over here. What you have IS a rarity for the UK.

However as Sidwinder has said getting spares will be much more difficult than getting an admittedly bargain cabinet from some shadey person on Gumtree (a suspicious and not often used website by anyone genuine!)

[Sidewinder]

Pathé 12's evolved a bit through their production cycle with respect to their motors

1.) base attached
2.) Transitional
3.) top affixed

[Sidewinder]

The next motor could be either fitted to the base or to the top

As you see it has holes for screwing to a top board or to a base of a case.

(I am missing some bits of this motor and been searching for about 10 years for the pieces) The white bits are polystyrene