warble on a Gem

[phonoman-antique]

I have a Gem machine and it records and plays back everything
with a strong warble.While it does sound like a really old machine
its way to much.Does anyone know what might be causing this problem?
I have a leather belt on the machine now.Would a rubber belt help?
If so where do I buy a rubber belt?Any help would be much appreciated.
I thought about adding a flywheel to the mandrel???Woops sorry Edison.

[kirtley2012]

i can almost guarantee you, it is the govenor being out of balance

[Jerry B.]

Kirtley is probably correct. Start with the governor. It should be oiled at each end and the felt pad or pads that rub against the brass wheel should be oiled. The belt tensioner should have a drop of oil. It needs to have a good leather belt. Jerry

[phonojim]

You may have bent governor springs which will throw it out of balance. Get a copy of Eric Reiss' book "The Compleat talking Machine". That will tell you what you need to know. Also make sure that everything is well lubricated including the upper works and mandrel bushings. The Gem motor is not very strong and it takes very little to adversely affect it. Another thing to look for on the governor is the pivot pins on the shaft ends. Make sure they are perfectly straight for proper operation.

Jim

[phonoman-antique]

Wow, thank you everyone for your helpful answers.
I will get out my oil can and get to work.

[Chuck]

First thing I would check is the governor.

Those are very tricky to get adjusted just
right so that there is absolutely no warble.

On my Edison Standard Model D combination
machine, it originally was equipped with a
governor that had a 1 inch long wire buffer
spring on the shaft.

I never could get that governor to operate
warble-free. I did get it working fairly well
but it was never good enough.

So, years ago, I found another complete governor that is the other kind with no buffer spring.

I then took the best set of weights and springs, the best shaft, the best brass plate,
and built up a governor out of the best
parts of two of them.

That one does run the machine totally warble
free when everything is just right. At
other times, there is a very tiny bit of
warble, but not hardly any.

Good luck! You can spend hours and days
taking the governor out, fiddling with it
some more, putting it back in, testing it, etc.

Probably back when these machines were brand new and all tight, they worked very well indeed.

Governors are very finicky things.
And they get more finicky as they wear out more.

Chuck

[phonoman-antique]

Thank you for your detailed governor reply Chuck.
Interesting that I also have a Standard "D" and it plays super clean.
(Fingers crossed behind my back.)
The very nature of how a governor works makes me think they should never
work.I still can't help but think by adding a flywheel to the mandrel would
make them steady.I will have to try this for fun.
Also as parts get more wear the slop factor enters into it.

[Chuck]

I was just pondering the whole governor issue
the other night. It seems to me that if somehow
the room could be found to make a special
governor that would have its own flywheel, that
might help smooth things out and get rid of
what we so often run across as a slight bit
of flutter.

Thinking about this, it dawns on me that the
way these governors are designed in to the
machine as a whole just does not lend itself
to adding much of a flywheel.

But, somehow, if the space to do it could ever
be found, it might be a very interesting experiment to try.

This would mean making a whole new governor
of a new and more compact design that would
somehow leave enough room for a nice heavy
little built-in flywheel right on the governor
shaft. I am picturing a flywheel maybe about
half-inch wide and maybe 2 inches in diameter.
Solid lead would be the best.

Maybe a dead-end experiment, but I have a
strong hunch that it would definitely do
something,....and to find out exactly what
that "something" might be, it would have to
be made and tested.

Just an idea. Anyone else have any thoughts
along these lines?

How about multiple flywheels on not only
the governor shaft, but also on some of the
intermediate shafts too, including the mandrel
as already proposed?

Obviously, being mass-produced machines,
Edison could not afford to put precision
flywheels in like this, because they would
add to complexity, cost, and they would
take up more room.

So, we end up with machines that all have this
propensity to flutter a bit, unless everything
is dead perfect. Perhaps a flywheel or two
would make things a little more forgiving
of small mis-adjustments.

Chuck

[phonoman-antique]

I sparked the inventor in you Chuck.
Multiple flywheels are not a good idea due to the possible interaction
and resulting in hunting.The best is just one flywheel in the right place.
I like on the mandrel.This is where speed change is least wanted.
Govenors already have flywheels in their lead weights.
Variable "I" type which make them very effective regulators.