Victor 19621

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Rastus10
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Rastus10 »

Henry--I'm impressed that you followed along with the sheet music. I formerly collected sheet music, but never thought of noting the differences in regard to notes that were sung. Alas, I wish that I knew more about the art of singing and the musical terminology, as that would probably enhance my listening experience.

Harold Aherne--Columbia 345-D is certainly on my want list for. It's interesting (to me) that there were rejected takes from March 2nd. There must have been a lot of trial and error during the adjustment period.

I don't think that 325-D is electric, although I could be wrong because I don't own that disc, either. I have read that, numerically, 326-D (Art Gillham) is the lowest-numbered electric record for Columbia. There are Columbia's numbered in the 390's that are acoustic. I don't know if there was a rationale, for example, behind 391-D (The Knickerbockers) being electric and 392-D (The Manhattan Merry Makers) being acoustic and both being recorded in late May.

Thank you!

Lenoirstreetguy
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Lenoirstreetguy »

Joan of Arkansas is indeed electrical. I've heard it. I am told too that it did go into general release . Some have speculated that it was merely a local issue for the U of Penn gang, but that seems not to have been the case. The mystery is why it's so rare. I don't think it was issued by the Montreal branch, however. I will check on that once more.

JRT.

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Wolfe
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Wolfe »

That Joan Of Arkansas is electrical I don't think anybody is questioning.

The devil disc in question is the earlier Trinity Choir one.

Lenoirstreetguy
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Lenoirstreetguy »

There are some difficulties with the Victor ledgers at this time. For example, there is an odd series of early electricals that were issued by Canadian Victor that were remakes of popular acoustic sides. In the States they were issued with new catalogue numbers. In Canada they were issued with the acoustic number plus a prefix 1, thus 18781 becomes 118781.The selections on this record are interesting in that the remakes don't appear in the Victor Discography: I can find no data on the electrical remake which certainly was done. If any of you folks can find it I'd be interested because I've tried. So there are mysteries to be solved...much like the Trinity Choir side. The question as to whether Victor was experimenting with it's own process at that late date is an interesting one. Victor seems to have flirted with some electrical experiments in 1922 according researcher Dr. Michael Biel, and then lost interest. HMV was experimenting on their own up to the point that they adopted the Western Electric system in early 1925.

JRT

Rastus10
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Rastus10 »

Lenoirstreetguy wrote:There are some difficulties with the Victor ledgers at this time. For example, there is an odd series of early electricals that were issued by Canadian Victor that were remakes of popular acoustic sides. In the States they were issued with new catalogue numbers. In Canada they were issued with the acoustic number plus a prefix 1, thus 18781 becomes 118781.The selections on this record are interesting in that the remakes don't appear in the Victor Discography: I can find no data on the electrical remake which certainly was done. If any of you folks can find it I'd be interested because I've tried. So there are mysteries to be solved...much like the Trinity Choir side. The question as to whether Victor was experimenting with it's own process at that late date is an interesting one. Victor seems to have flirted with some electrical experiments in 1922 according researcher Dr. Michael Biel, and then lost interest. HMV was experimenting on their own up to the point that they adopted the Western Electric system in early 1925.

JRT
Forgive me if I mis-apprehend your query as related to Victor 18781. I see that disc comprises two selections by the Peerless Quartet: I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen; and When The Corn is waving Annie Dear. They are matrices B-24787 and B-25324, respectively.

The EDVR shows both as being remade on July 3, 1925, and issued as Victor 19888. Is that what you were referring to?

http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.ph ... n_Kathleen

http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.ph ... Annie_dear

I have read of the 1922 experiments, and I believe that a test pressing of one of them was sold several years ago. I wonder how it sounds: hopefully comparable to former President Wilson's Armistice Day radio address of 1923, which I believe is the earliest extant radio broadcast.

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Harold Aherne
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Harold Aherne »

Are the 19888 selections aurally different than the ones on 118781?

-HA

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Henry
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Henry »

Rastus10 wrote:Henry--I'm impressed that you followed along with the sheet music. I formerly collected sheet music, but never thought of noting the differences in regard to notes that were sung. Alas, I wish that I knew more about the art of singing and the musical terminology, as that would probably enhance my listening experience.
Why, there's nothing to it---just start when you're ten years old; the rest is easy :lol:

I agree that we seem no closer to answering the question about 19621, and I must take the blame for leading this thread off-course with my digging around to find out more about 19626. Once I discovered that it had local (to me) interest, I just couldn't quit: a familiar feeling in this hobby!

Rastus10
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Rastus10 »

I have enjoyed the digression(s). :)

Lenoirstreetguy
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by Lenoirstreetguy »

Rastus10 wrote:I have enjoyed the digression(s). :)
Me too and thanks for the Kathleen page! I don't know why I couldn't find it. ( Other than the fact that I can be particularly stupid navigating websites.)
The Victor experiments of 1922 and early '23 were done by Albertus Hewitt using Charles Hoxie's Pallotrope instead of a microphone. This device,from General Electric, was to become one of the the core elements of the Brunswick Light Ray apparatus two years later. According to Michael Biel they made a series of tests ...some of which used Gladys Rice and William Robyn.... along with material taken from radio broadcasts. Victor lost interest in the summer of 1923 and the order came down to cease experimenting. I think the poor quality of the recordings was the reason. But I'd love to hear one.
Speaking of Victor attempting to circumnavigate the Western Electric patents, Fenimore Johnson (E.R.'s son) tells an interesting anecdote in his book of memoirs. On the day of the big Western Electric presentation of electrical recording and the new talking machine to the entire technical and administrative staff in January 1925 , Fenimore and the research department mocked up a phonograph of their own using a long coiled ...and possibly exponential...horn and a soundbox which would become the Victrola No. 4. After Western Electric demonstrated the machine which would be marketed as the Credenza, the Victor folks wheeled out their own machine, borrowed the record and played it. By all reports it sounded very good indeed and rather took some of the wind out of Western Electric's sails. And according to Johnson, helped Victor to negotiate a more advantageous contract with Western Electric.

JRT

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yankmycrank
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Re: Victor 19621

Post by yankmycrank »

A few years ago Larry Holdridge (www.holdridgerecords.com) offered one of the '22 tests on his annual auction; it was Victor stalwart Myrtle Eaver playing piano. It was mainly of historical, rather than sonic or musical, interest.

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