Victor 19621

[victorIIvictor]

I noticed a discrepancy between a listing in EDVR and John Bolig's Black Label Discography (19000 Series), regarding Victor 19621. As we know, at

<http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.ph ... ctor_19621>

the EDVR database shows the matrix prefix of each side of this disc as "BE." However, John Bolig's Black Label Discography (19000 Series) on page 281-82 shows the matrix prefix for each side as "B," Indicating an acoustic recording. In his "Acknowledgments" on page vii, Bolig writes that he used EDVR to "recheck and confirm hundreds of entries without having to constantly travel to New York to get the job done," but presumably not in this case. I contacted EDVR through their website about this discrepancy, but have not yet received other than a form reply. I also contacted Mainspring Press, Bolig's publisher. As soon as I get a reply from either, I will post here.

Best wishes, Mark (who does not have Victor 19621)

[Rastus10]

In this saga of such breathtaking interest, I have at length purchased a copy of Victor 19621, and await its receipt.

I did note that the photograph of the disc seemed to show a VE with a circle around it, but I must wait to confirm.

Thus, did a session from March 4, 1925, that yielded an issue at a lower number than the conventionally established Victor 19626, indeed witness Victor's first ten-inch black label electrically recorded disc? We shall see.

The more I look at the data from the 3/04/25, session, the fact that thirty-five voices are accompanied by a piano lends me to believe that this was not an acoustic endeavour.

Oh the minutiae.

[Henry]

Keep us posted!

[victorIIvictor]

I will be most interested, too, especially as neither EVRD nor Mainspring Press/John Bolig ever got back to me.

By the way, your point about the composition of the Trinity Choir on that date intrigued me, so here is a comparison of the Trinity Choir's composition, on the recordings this studio group made before, during, and after Victor 19621:

First, an acoustic recording recorded September 20, 1923 and released January 30, 1925:

Victor 19499: Trinity Choir: "All Hail the Power of Jesus' Name," three sopranos, one contralto, two tenors, two baritones.

Then, the disputed recording, both sides recorded March 4, 1925 and released on May 1, 1925.

Victor 19621: Trinity Choir: "Hark, Hark My Soul," 12 sopranos, seven altos, eight tenors, eight basses, unaccompanied b/w "Prayer of Thanksgiving" same but add Josef Pasternak, piano.

Finally, Trinity Choir's first electrical recording, made on October 16, 1925 and released later that year:

Victor 19823: Trinity Choir: "Hark, the Herald Angels Sing," four sopranos, one contralto, three tenors, two baritones, two basses, and organ.

Not even the confirmed electrical recording can match the vocal power allegedly assembled for Victor 19621! Interestingly, Bolig's book lists the names of the singers for 19449 and 19823, but not for 19621.

Best wishes, Mark

[Rastus10]

Thank you, Mark.

I had thought of the Trinity Choir as comprising less than or about ten singers in most cases, as well. Thus, thirty-five rather jumped out at me.

It could be a moot point if this pesky choir record turns out to be acoustic, after all.

I saw that 19626, the Mask and Wig Club/International Novelty Orchestra disc, has a release of 4/25. Would that date have been April 1st, or did Victor stagger its releases throughout the month?

[victorIIvictor]

I'm afraid I have no idea. Bolig is at odds with EDVR, stating only that the disc was in release in 1926 and 1927, with no more specificity.

[Rastus10]

I have just received Victor 19621, recorded on March 4, 1925, and can confirm that both titles were electrically recorded, and with the same level of sound quality as the 2/26/25, session, despite the absence of a BVE designation.

While I unfortunately do not possess the ability to transfer these titles for upload, I do hope to take some pictures to show the familiar encircled VE stamp in the near future. I regret the former, but I'm not sure so sure that choir selections would be all that highly anticipated, anyway.

Thus, as several of you alluded to reading at some point, Victor 19626 as being the lowest numbered ten-inch black-label electrically recorded disc is not correct. The lowly choir record trumps the Mask and Wig Club.

I ran across this, which, while confirming a Canadian issue of the disc as electric, states that the US issue was acoustic. Interesting.

http://www.capsnews.org/barrvic.htm

Thanks to all for following and contributing to this!

[Wolfe]

I had been thinking it possible that there were two versions, one acoustic and one electric, thus the confusion.

Still, it took "Ratsus10" on the TMF to correct what the published historians like Bolig and Roland Gelatt have been getting wrong all these many years.

[Rastus10]

I had been thinking it possible that there were two versions, one acoustic and one electric, thus the confusion.

I did not know that was your contribution. I remember to have read it a while ago, and it gave me hope that I wasn't off kilter, so to speak, in hoping that some form of the disc was electric.

Now, one other item: the matrix numbers for the two selections on Victor 19621 are 32166 and 32167. I have no idea if Victor blocked these off for the choir, or how that worked, and that they were indeed recorded on March 4, 1925; BUT the preceding numbers 32163-32165 were for recordings made on March 17th, and 32168-32170 were recorded on March 20th, the 32168 and 32169 being acoustic, and 32170 being the electrically recorded Buenos Aires.

Since the following statement appears in the Footnotes and Sources area for both BE 32166 and BE 32167, I will paste it, and wonder aloud if perhaps the date of March 4, 1925, is a mistake, even if the disc itself take whatever award for being first, numerically. The Online Discographical Project shows a recording date of March 17, 1925, for the titles. Any ideas?

"Victor ledgers show these recordings with the "BE-" prefix to the matrix number, implying that they were early electrical recordings. However, a handwritten note on the ledger page states, "Miss Bushnell says elec. rec'g started Mar. 11, 1925 in one room only." "

http://victor.library.ucsb.edu/index.ph ... anksgiving

[victorIIvictor]

I am afraid I am confused. Is your copy of Victor 19621 a Canadian issue of that number? (and thank you for that linked to the Canadian website; I was not aware of it.)


Best wishes, Mark