Edison C-19: Diagnostic Opinions?

[edisonphonoworks]

Could be the feed rack on the horn exerting too much pressure on the worm gear drive. polish and oil the horn bearings and adjust the horn drag spring. I have to take my horn assembly apart and clean it, it squeaks sometimes during playback (I have oiled the parts but it sometimes needs to be cleaned.) But they play really nice when they are working. When doing any Edison reproducer work, remember to only tighten bezels to the sealing point and no more, as the diaphragm will lose bass response and volume.

[Cody K]

I suspected the worm gear, but cleaned the extraneous grease from it (quite a lot!) gave the rest some sewing machine oil to soften it a little, and it didn't change much. Because the problem was predictable, with fluctuation happening always and dependably at the same time-points in whatever record I tried, I figured it had to be something -- a gear, most likely -- that performs a repetitive, limited task without varying the way the tension of the spring does. I'm just not used to the concept of horns that travel with the reproducer -- what'll they think up next?!

I'll do just what you suggest with regard to the horn's bearings and spring, using the booklets I've downloaded as a guide, and I think that will get it to play beautifully for now. I'm looking forward to doing a complete restoration of this motor once the Victrola is done. For once I'm glad that winter lasts several months!

[Kirkwood]

Since this seems to happen at about the same point each time you play a record, maybe check the teeth on that feed rack "comb" that engages the worm drive gear. Maybe there is a tiny flat spot or a couple of bent teeth that cause it to bind up on the worm drive. This could cause it to slow down a bit, and wouldn't necessarily respond to cleaning or lubrication of the worm gear or other motor parts. That the motor and spring are so robust would continue to drive the feed, but the binding action would cause it to just slow little bit until it worked its way past the bad spot. Just an idea of something to check for....

[celticguitar666]

Heh -- Dwight, I think I must have been second in line for the one you got in Norton -- I replied to that ad less than two hours after it was posted. Just goes to show, when it comes to phonographs, there's enough for everybody!

Cheers --
Cody

I lucked out I usually don't so I was quite happy and it's cleaned up and plays great now I am trying to get some good music on disc I already have quite a bit on 78
This is alot of fun
Dwight

[Brad]

Glad you got things running.

There were a lot of good suggestions here, but I think I may know where your problem was. I have a lesser London model that exhibits the exact same behavior. What I discovered was the slow down corresponded at exactly the same point of the spring barrel rotation. When you think about the periodicity you observed and the rotation rate of the barrel, it should correspond.

I have not spent any time to resolve mine as I have the machine rotated out and in storage for another day. I am glad to know that a good cleaning should resolve it.

(And yes, my first DD was also a Chippendale. I have many DD machines now, too many my wife says )

[Cody K]

It's running, all right...exactly the same way as it had been! Yesterday I took the motor out and gave it a cleaning, removing scads of old grease, and relubricating with lithium/moly. I examined all the parts, and nothing looks amiss, so I was hopeful that the problem would now be solved. No such luck.

Kirkwood, thanks for the suggestion above. I wondered if it might be that, too. But reviewing the various speculation in this thread two nights ago, it occurred to me that the machine runs the same way whether or not the rack is engaged (one of those "duh" moments!). So I figured that it had to be some general gumminess causing the speed to vary, if not a fault in one of the gears. While cleaning the motor, I found that the smooth ellipse under the motorboard, along which the friction spring moves, was pretty gummy with the remains of something like old Three-in-One oil, and I had a flash of hope that that could be the problem -- even though that part doesn't come into play unless the reproducer has been lowered.

Anyway, I put it back together, and whaddaya know -- the motor still runs with the same darn pattern of varying speed. Back to the ol' drawing board!

The Mechanical Service and Repairs manual that David Clark reproduced for the Forum, which has been a huge help, does offer this:

If all these inspections fail to restore the motor to uniform running so that the music is no longer subject to change of pitch, the cause is very likely in the spring case. A dry central shaft may be one of the causes. The caking of graphite on the spring coils will consume power, cause the motor to fluctuate, and very probably cause jumping or pounding of the spring while the motor is running. To eliminate these complaints it is necessary to cleanse and lubricate the main spring as per directions in paragraph (9), page 7.

I'm going to have to put this machine aside for awhile, I think, in order to finish the Credenza, which I had hoped to have done by Christmas. When I do get that done, it'll obviously be time for...spring cleaning! I'm actually pretty likely to send the springs out for that, as the Edison springs are well-known to be extra-strong and extra-perilous, having famously killed 23 children and a nun when one got loose in an orphanage in Belgium in 1924.

As a side-note, I experimented last night with playing a diamond disc on the Actuelle, since I was recently given the stylus required to do so. (Yes, I moved the cone to the "vertical" position.) It played the record perfectly well, though with less volume than the Actuelle usually gives. I watched it closely under a bright light, and it did change the appearance of the record very subtly as it played. The point on the stylus is in good condition, so I don't think it was scraping the groove, as such, and it didn't remove the record's sheen at all, it just changed it very slightly. I'm going to guess that, however light the Actuelle tone arm may be, it's still several grams heavier than an Edison stylus, which would account for some of the change. But also, the Actuelle's needle chuck sits at a fixed 45-degree angle, and it seems to me that for Edison discs, which have a softer surface than the tough old Actuelle verticals, which are in turn played with the rounder sapphire tip, that angle can't be good. The record I used for this experiment was a nice clean copy of Whispering Hope, by Helen Clark and good ol' Walter Van Brunt, so, y'know, nothing ventured, nothing gained, and...nothing lost. But given the evidence, I won't be playing any more Edisons on the Actuelle.

[celticguitar666]

Is that story true about the Nun and children? Sounds like a haunted phonograph if true truly sad but I think you are joking Too bad about not getting machine running right it is probably as someone said after all the obvious is eliminated what is left is probably the answer. It sounds the spring or a bearing directly r/t the spring or a bent shaft is the culprit not a project for average guy fingers, limbs and other body parts a more important. Maybe a previous owner gaffed something up. is it possible to remove the mechanism and set it that you watch it operate to see if something revolves not in a perfect circle as it should? Just a thought.
Maybe another machine will come along this is pretty addictive the only thing that keeps from having a basement full of stuff is wait a minute I do have a basement full of stuff ( 6 turntables all able to play records 3 have 78 capability and also DD capability thousands of vinyl too) but only 3 acoustic machines sigh but wife says no more unless it's a portable.
Happy New year to all
Do a needle drop and listen to some good tunes!
Dwight

[Cody K]

Is that story true about the Nun and children?

When confronted with information that I'm skeptical about, I always ask myself, "Self, where did you get this information?". If the answer is "On the internet", I know it must be true!

[celticguitar666]

Is that story true about the Nun and children?

When confronted with information that I'm skeptical about, I always ask myself, "Self, where did you get this information?". If the answer is "On the internet", I know it must be true!

I know the commercial I am a french model you know Just curious as one never knows. I did not look up Nun and children killed by out control phonograph ha ha
Dwight

[Valecnik]

The reproducer is definitely a Jewel with the "no-mi-ca" diaphragm. It was a play on words, i.e. "no mica". I've posted some pics of the instructions on Facebook if you have access to this link. not sure how that works.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater