5 inch mandrel columbia cylinder phonographs

[obmcclintock]

Thank you, I will definitely look into that.

[recordo]

When I was recording for Vulcan a few years ago when I was on a concert tour through Europe, I asked Duncan to play me a Concert Cylinder (as I'd only ever collected normal sized cylinders). I couldn't believe how loud it was!

A truly beautiful product, personal bias aside!

Regards, Glenn.

[obmcclintock]

Glenn, that is so true. I understand that was certainly needed in larger halls to make the sound fill the room. I have yet to order some Vulcan cylinders. I talked to them a few months ago to see if they will soon have other titles. She did not promise anything but said that there may be others in works. The only other cylinders that come close to volume and clarity besides the concerts are the later 4minute blue amberols. I have Edison machines as well as Edison cylinders but I have always been partial to the Columbia graphophones. A few friends have told my that they thought that the Edisons are better in quality. I don't know about that, I just like the looks of the Columbia's better.

[obmcclintock]

Maybe some of you that have an AB Macdonald Graphophone can answer a question for me please. Mine is in fair condition. The bed plate is somewhat rusty and the lever that lowers and lifts the reproducer doesn't seem to change much in height whether it is up or down but those things I can handle for now. My main situation with it is that when I wind it up even really tight it does not want to play a cylinder all the way through. I do not like winding it that much as I fear that it will break but what might the cause of this be? Were they not designed to play a cylinder all the way through without a rewind? I am ignorant about this and do apologize so I will lean on you guys to clue me in, thanks, dave

[phonogfp]

Maybe some of you that have an AB Macdonald Graphophone can answer a question for me please. Mine is in fair condition. The bed plate is somewhat rusty and the lever that lowers and lifts the reproducer doesn't seem to change much in height whether it is up or down but those things I can handle for now. My main situation with it is that when I wind it up even really tight it does not want to play a cylinder all the way through. I do not like winding it that much as I fear that it will break but what might the cause of this be? Were they not designed to play a cylinder all the way through without a rewind? I am ignorant about this and do apologize so I will lean on you guys to clue me in, thanks, dave

Dave,

The AB, like any other spring-driven phonograph, was designed to play at least one record all the way through without rewinding. If yours doesn't do this, there are a couple of possible causes.

1) The mechanism might be dirty and need a thorough cleaning and proper lubrication. Open-works machines like the AB are particularly vulnerable to getting dirt in the gears. You mention rust on your bedplate. If the gears have any rust on the teeth, that will really rob power from the motor. Be sure the feedscrew is clean and rust-free. ABs are easy to disassemble and reassemble. By addressing each of these problems, you may see an improvement. It doesn't take much to bog down the little motor of the AB.

2) The mainspring may have been left wound up tightly for years or decades. If so, the mainsprings may simply be tired. The only real solution for this is to replace them. Fortunately, the mainsprings of an AB (identical to those of an "Eagle") are inexpensive and easy to work with.

I'd tackle #1 first, and go for #2 only if necessary.

Good luck!

George P.

[obmcclintock]

Thanks George !! I will check it all out.

[edisonphonoworks]

I really have wanted to make Concert blanks and records authentically, of brown wax. Does anyone have information on what the concert moulds looked like? I was told once about a Montana Phonograph Company Concert Cylinder Mold floating around, I would like a photograph and measurements of it. What I am wondering about is how the extraction handle on the mandrel is, or how it works, how tall the original concert moulds were. Most likely the concert records were about 7" tall before they were trimmed. My blanks are 7" long before they are trimmed to 4 ¼-4 ½" long.

[Chuck]

Hi Shawn,

I think that if you really want to make a concert mold that you can use the general layout of my mold for the regular small cylinders as a guide.

What I mean by that is to use the same general
pattern of the base, with the vertical round
post, and with the two concentric stepped
round guides on the top surface that engage
the inside of the metal outer cylinder, and the
hollow mold core.

Make the inside of the outer cylinder a sixteenth to an eighth inch larger in diameter
than a finished concert blank is at its largest
working diameter.

Make the whole works at least a few inches taller than the finished blank to give plenty
of headroom for the liquid wax to shrink
downwards as the casting cools.

That only leaves the mold core dimensions as
an unknown. I would suggest using a concert
mandrel as a guide.

Basically, you can pretty much get away with
making the mold core to have the same dimensions as the machine's mandrel because
the wax casting shrinks enough that when reamed
back up to size it will fit the machine's
mandrel.

The way it seems to have worked out is that
the shrinkage is just about right to make just
enough, but not too much reaming.

It's important to get the taper correct so
that you don't have to ream them too much.

You already have the mold drawings so I'd
suggest using those as a guide and making
a scaled-up version for the concert blanks.

Just a few ideas to kick around.

Chuck

[obmcclintock]

Shawn, whenever you are able to cut new songs on the concert cylinders I will provide you with a standing order for tunes that I like. I have some that need shaving and re-cutting. I do not know why Vulcan has such a limited number of titles for their concert cylinders? I wish that someone would produce ones with numerous titles. If Vulcan can do it so can others.

[stevenhman]

First of all, thanks for digging up this old thread!

The largest likely problem is the cost of the tool (a.k.a. the mold for the record). Plus time on an injection molding machine (which requires setup, tool maintenance, dry the resin, dial in the tool, then finally make a run of records). I know that when we order molds they are very expensive (but this is for glass-filled resin parts and the tool needs to last at least 1 million shots).

Also this doesn't include whatever needs to happen to go from a wax record to a negative mold. I know the process involves electroplating the wax record and building up subsequent layers of metal and at some point in that process the wax record is destroyed(? - or it is necessary to destroy the record to remove it from the metal coating), but how this is actually done I haven't had time to investigate.