The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Starkton wrote:

estott wrote:The Berliner Gram-O-Phone Co was for a time the Canadian branch of Victor.

That is not true, as far as I know. The Berliner Gramophone Co. of Canada was an independent company, much the same as the Gramophone & Typewriter Ltd. in Europe. Both companies were important customers of the Victor Talking Machine Co.

All these companies were licensed by Emile Berliner to use his patents in the respective countries.

Yes, what I said was a best a gross oversimplification. It was a separate company which built its own instruments, though as the years went on the relationship with Victor shifted until it was selling Victor-made machines.

estott wrote:The Berliner Gram-O-Phone Co was for a time the Canadian branch of Victor- aside from their own models I've seen their name plates on Victor machines.

Here is my own VV-XVI L-Door nameplate. Excuse the mess, please. Restoration is still an on-going concern.

Another example of the little guy showing up with related logos...

Starkton wrote:

epigramophone wrote: It is perhaps worth adding that The Gramophone Company was remarkably slow to exploit Nipper's full advertising potential.

In contrary. The Gramophone Co. was fully aware of its advertising potential, and exploited the “His Master's Voice” picture extensively from January 1900, when it first showed up in a record catalogue.

Victor had the Nipper trademark on their labels by the end of 1900. The Gramophone Company waited until 1909.

I rest my case.

The first time the HMV logo was used was in Canada Registered May 1900 with the department of agriculture ( a catch- all department (back then) for a lot of patents). The first time HMV was used on a record was also here in Canada. It was placed in the sound waves and are very rare. They were made for a few months at best and on the first type of Canadian pressing. Which were made from US and UK masters. Some have only two logo's pressed and some (like mine) have four logo's.

Berliner in Montreal was a separate company until March or April of 1921. This was the point that Herbert Berliner resigned as company vice-president and general manager, his brother Edgar assumed the reins and Victor gained control, essentially . The company was renamed The Victor Talking Machine Company in 1924. Just exactly what happened is still a moot point, but Herbert was attempting to up the ante in terms of an independent recording policy . He had started an extensive recording programme in Montreal and this was freeing the company from the dependence on the Victor catalogue for the popular lists. This was frowned upon in Camden and pressure was exerted on him through his father Emile. The saga is very complicated. I've been researching this for years and even now there is great variation in the stories depending on whose camp one is in.
Was Herbert a double-dealing jerk who had set up a competing company ( Compo) while still in control at Berliner or was he a good Canadian nationalist who saw the writing on the wall when " the Colossus of Camden" started to put pressure on him via his father?
Stay tuned. I'm working on it.

Jim