The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Steve wrote:The Asian market has NOTHING to do with the price whatsoever. EMG and Expert machines are even interesting enough to gain attention from the British collector, hence the price!

From the number of EMGs I see on Japanese websites I cannot believe your statement. Furthermore I always read that the British talking machine market ist stone-dead because older collectors (called "anoraks" by some) give up and followers are out of sight.

Starkton wrote:

Steve wrote:The Asian market has NOTHING to do with the price whatsoever. EMG and Expert machines are even interesting enough to gain attention from the British collector, hence the price!

From the number of EMGs I see on Japanese websites I cannot believe your statement. Furthermore I always read that the British talking machine market ist stone-dead because older collectors (called "anoraks" by some) give up and followers are out of sight.

An interesting point. As far as I'm aware most British machines are held by an exclusive ring of collectors, but unlike America I don't believe there to be as many people interested in machine collecting. Seriously, I'm jealous that a lot of you in the US can find Edison machines and Victor machines everywhere!

JHolmesesq wrote:An interesting point. As far as I'm aware most British machines are held by an exclusive ring of collectors, but unlike America I don't believe there to be as many people interested in machine collecting. Seriously, I'm jealous that a lot of you in the US can find Edison machines and Victor machines everywhere!

Same situation here- I was tickled to get an HMV 109 table grand- a machine UK collectors have no trouble finding.

Starkton wrote:

Steve wrote:The Asian market has NOTHING to do with the price whatsoever. EMG and Expert machines are even interesting enough to gain attention from the British collector, hence the price!

From the number of EMGs I see on Japanese websites I cannot believe your statement. Furthermore I always read that the British talking machine market ist stone-dead because older collectors (called "anoraks" by some) give up and followers are out of sight.

Certainly the entrance of Asian, mostly Japanese, collectors had a big influence on the American market several years ago. 15 plus years ago you could by and Orthophonic credenza for 250 bucks for a nice one. Rather quickly, coupled with a strong yen, the price went to $1500 and the things went to Asia by the boat loads. Finally, when enough had been imported to Asia, the price dropped way back down...

I hate to say "I told you so" but did anyone note the final hammer price?

£570!!!!!

I'd have wanted another two-springs for that money!

So the price didn't double...it tripled!
EMG really are to gramophones what Bettini is to phonographs.
£570 hey... Gee, I could buy about a dozen Crudenzas & a holiday in Texas for that price

Starkton wrote: Indeed, the Asian market has grown very much since the early 80s. Perhaps they took pleasure to buy certain European and US models only after their own supplies dried up. Does somebody have a "Seikosha" open horn machine left?
http://www.shirakami.or.jp/~dfg567/gramoph.htm

Yep, the Japanese has a lot of EMG Machines; I know at least two dozens of Japanese collectors who has an EMG machine in their collection. Some of them actually 'recreated' EMG machines, completely made by themselves.

Seikosha is a Japanese Clock manufacturing Company which is famous for their 'noiseless' motors since they started their business in late 19th century. They also dabbled with Phonograph Manufacturing in late 1910s until 1924 or so. They sold their Phonograph factory to Nitto Phonograph Company in Osaka, a Japanese phonograph/record company notorious for their products' fragility (thus giving the reason for their super-rarity).

I have seen these Seikosha Horn-type models twice, once among a Korean phonograph collection in a perfect condition, and the second appearing a Japanese auction site for a minimum bid of (approx.) 600 dollars. It is pretty interesting that according to the marks, the soundbox on those machines were actually made in Germany, although every other parts were made by Japanese.

Some of them actually 'recreated' EMG machines, completely made by themselves.

Can you provide any pictures of the 'recreated' examples please? Have they completely reproduced the original horns etc?

As far as my knowledge with these reproducers goes, they do all have an excessive weight compared to any regular acoustic sound box. The machines have an extraordinary sound, but that's all at the price of a record-wrecker - just like the Edison Dance reproducer for DD's.

I believe the additional mass is to compensate for the use of fibre needles, which these soundboxes were primarily designed to be used with? I suppose if you also consider that fibres do not wreck records, the massof the soundbox is almost irrelevant?