Victrola Motor Identification

[Littleport22]

What I don't like about it is that it doesn't allow the tone arm to swing all the way back to its rest when not being used. Kind of a clunky reproducer on this particular tone arm.

[De Soto Frank]

Hmmmm....

That speed control with the "kidney-shaped" plate was used somewhere bewteen about 1911 and 1914, if I remember correctly... such a machine should have a "tab-brake" located at about "2 o'clock" on the motorboard (if the tone-arm base is at "12 o'clock").

My family has a VV-IX (with "feet") from around 1915 with the "kidney" speed control, tab-brake, skinny taper-tube, and and Exhibition soundbox. It is factory original, aside from my attempts to "re-amalgamate" the finish while in high-school.

Yours should have the Exhibition soundbox if equipped with the "skinny" taper-tube; Victor #2 Soundbox if it has the "fat" taper-tube (small screw in center of gooseneck plug).

I think the cautionary advice to avoid investing much more into this machine might be wise; on the other-hand, it could be a good "guinea-pig" for you to learn-on.

As you find correct parts, the ones you have could be sold to help subsidize your project.


Robert Baumbach's "Look for the Dog" is a must-have for the Victor & Victrola enthusiast. Lots of info about each model, production years, etc.


Please share some additional pics as you go along !

Regards,

De Soto Frank

PS: Went back and looked closely at your pics, and at Retrograde's link to the Victor-Victrola Page on the Model X. According to Paul Edie's production schedule, your machine should date from around 1914. I believe you are correct in that an entire motor-board & motor were dropped-in, as I do not see any extra holes or hardware mods that suggest the motor was transplanted on the original board. While this motor and board may not be "original" to the machine, they are Victor's two-barrel motor of the period, and it is a good motor.
Looks like yours is swathed in pre-Depression grease - it would be good to disassmeble, de-gunk, and re-lube the motor.

Not sure when the automatic brake was intro'd, you might remove it to see of there are other screw-holes underneath, suggesting that this motorboard originally had a plain tab-brake, and this auto-brake was a later addition.

For a 1914 machine, an Exhibition sound box would be correct.

Looks like the wooden needle-cup holder is missing from the deck also, as well as the lift-knob from the lower-left corner of the motorboard.

How well or poorly was the winding-key relocaton done on the side ?

Looks like it has potential to be a good "guinea-pig" / user machine.

[mattrx]

The first machine I started on was a VTLA family machine. There is more motivation in a family machine for me. However, It seems to me to be a certain "right of passage" to spend a little more than necessary on you first "learning Machine". I chalked the expense up to education and went on with life. I think spending a little more than you will get out of the first machine is "normal" and will reap other benefits in the end. Fix the machine to your liking without going crazy and learn as you go. I have $6-700 in my vtla and will spend more in the future refinishing it (someone already has and did a poor job of it). Then replating it will be even more. But, I will learn a great deal, and pass down both the knowledge and the machine to my children. In my mind, money well spent. Your mileage may vary.

[Littleport22]

LOL, the last two posts have me pegged pretty well Definitely a learner machine / Guinea Pig. I don't mind spending the money as I have no ambition whatsoever in selling it. At the end of the day I'll put into it whatever will still allow me to sleep at night, lol. I'll take my time and work it over in pieces. The experience gained will make allow me to be a little more scrutinizing in my next purchase.

Thanks for the book recommend. I'll definitely look for "Look For the Dog". I can't wait to get the motor apart and get it cleaned up. I'm likely going to get a copy of "The Compleate Talking Machine" as I hear that's a great resource for such a task. I also have little heartbreak over learning about what I purchased since it still plays music. I'm just having a lot of fun learning about these amazing machines! Also, here's a pic of the key hole. There's no great way to plug a hole and make it look hidden, but for a "guinnea pig" I could make it look decent. At least it's close enough to be partially hidden beneath the (missing) escutcheon plate.

[Jerry B.]

I am not an authority on the history of Victor motors but if you start with the first Victrola motors installed in the high volume sellers like the IX, X, and XI, the first motors were a variation of the double spring motor commonly found in the Victor III. Next were short lived double spring motors like the one in this thread. Finally, Victor designed and build the much more common motor with two springs in one barrel. If you consider that the Victrola X was made for well over a decade, the vast majority of those years the common two springs in one barrel motor was used. The same motor was used in the following Victrola 80, 90, etc.
*
If you need the common two springs in one barrel motor, I have a spare already mounted on a mahogany motor board that I would be happy to trade. Please send a PM (personal message). I should say your motor is much more uncommon. Jerry Blais

[De Soto Frank]

Littleport,


Could you please post a photo of the record storage area with the doors open ?

The style of record storage ( horizontal or vertical) can also help date the cabinet...


Thanks,

De Soto Frank

[Henry]

FWIW, if I read that very first photo correctly, I believe that the winding key for this motor must be a female connection to a male receiver. This would narrow it down somewhat, although reference to Baumbach's Victor Data Book still discloses a great many models with "female cranks." In the case of the XI, earlier models came with female cranks, but beginning in c. 1914 with the G model the crank changed to male.

[gramophone78]

Littleport,


Could you please post a photo of the record storage area with the doors open ?

The style of record storage ( horizontal or vertical) can also help date the cabinet...


Thanks,

De Soto Frank

Since the tag in still on the case 74,849. There is no need to see the lower cabinet. You can get the date from the serial number. Just check your data book. Wait....I'II get it....1914.... .

[De Soto Frank]

Littleport,


Could you please post a photo of the record storage area with the doors open ?

The style of record storage ( horizontal or vertical) can also help date the cabinet...


Thanks,

De Soto Frank

Since the tag in still on the case 74,849. There is no need to see the lower cabinet. You can get the date from the serial number. Just check your data book. Wait....I'II get it....1914.... .

Yes, the serial number can certainly correlate a date; assuming that the plate wasn't swapped. The patent label on the bottom of the cabinet could likewas help in dating... providing it is still there and legible...

This machine has been modified, so I wouldn't consider anything "certain" w/o seeing all aspects of the machine.

[Littleport22]

Unfortunately no patent label below (or anywhere else). The date seems to be about right and the record shelves are horizontal which corresponds with the serial number suffix "H". That model year they switched from vertical storage to horizontal shelves.

I started the amazingly fun task of taking the motor apart to clean it. And I'm not being sarcastic it really is good old dirty fun. Everything's cleaning up nicely and all that's left is the frame and the spring barrels.

I don't know if it makes a difference in identification, but under the springs is stamped the number 8. Hmmm, maybe useful, maybe not, but thought I'd mention it.