The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

dd2u wrote:I think £4500 is a reasonable price for an Xb even in that condition.

It looks like the horn has a repair at the rim and is visually tatty but structurally sound. Some superficial repairs and polishing could make that machine look ten times better.

It amazes me when eBay sellers do not even wipe the dust away before taking a photograph! Yet such auctions are still successful so maybe it adds to the charm and authenticity.

Agreed, it seemed a fair price to me, even with the tatty horn as you say, and that nasty looking repair at around the 7 o'clock position.

I do rather like things found in "dans son jus" condition, as the French say.

I wonder who bought it! I hope they take advice from people who know these machines really well (people who know more than me!) before attempting any repairs. Even very subtle changes to the horn surface and/or rim can affect the sound a great deal.

Orchorsol wrote:

De Soto Frank wrote:Must have sounded good to justify such a.... "functional"... appearance.

What is the horn made from ?

Aluminium casting for the base, and papier appliqué.

Thank you - is "papier applique" another term for "paper mache`" ?

Retrograde wrote:

JohnM wrote:Must be Rick Wilkins selling it if it's in Duncanville.

his business card at the bottom of the auction page is a dead giveaway.

I never looked that far . . . I don't need no steeenking beezniss cards!

Orchorsol wrote:I hope they take advice from people who know these machines really well (people who know more than me!) before attempting any repairs. Even very subtle changes to the horn surface and/or rim can affect the sound a great deal.

Sadly most people seem to want to paint dishevelled horns to hide the blemishes. I believe that some EMG horns were painted originally but it seems that the majority had decorative paper. Over the years there must have been quite a wide variety of papers to choose from when new. I think some of the modern paint schemes look pretty awful though some of the period ones look pretty awful to me too!

I too have read about the effects the various finishes have on the acoustics of the machines. I think I am correct in saying that new machines shipped with matt pain, gloss paint, matt paper, shiny paper, textured paper, flat paper and maybe other options. This may just be hearsay but if true it suggests that there was no real purist approach to the relationship between horn finish and acoustic response.

De Soto Frank wrote:

Thank you - is "papier applique" another term for "paper mache`" ?

Papier appliqué is not the same as papier mâché. The latter is paper which has been reduced to small pieces (mashed) which are then reconstituted with a light glue to enable new shapes to be made where structural strength is unimportant. Appliqué (applied) involves use of larger paper strips/squares/rectangles etc which are then laid and successively partly over-laid to gradually build up a structurally strong item usually over a former or mould of the desired shape. When constructing a horn bell, the paper can be moistened before being laid down with a glue and it is a wise precaution to vary the colour of the paper on each complete layer to ensure consistency of wall thickness.

EMG and Expert horns were constructed in this way and decorative papers were used on the first and last layers (sugar paper in between). There were many patterns and colours which have now, 80 years later, often degraded to a relatively uninteresting brown. Originally, the eye could be excited by the sight such as one might see on the inside of the covers of a high quality leather-bound book.

In my experience, it does make a considerable difference to the sound quality if the inside of the horn is painted. A gloss or even satin finish will very much detract from the acoustic result. A matt paper finish, on the other hand, does not reflect unwanted sound waves. I have also found that an abraded finish on the initial gel coat when employing fibre glass will also give similar good results.