The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi Alistair!

In regard to #489, I'm in agreement with Andersun. If I had to guess, I'd say that the mandrel pulley or (perhaps more likely) the entire mandrel, shaft and pulley are from a late 4 Clip or New style machine. If everything else seems to have been together for a long time, then I'd guess that it was an early replacement. It's hard to imagine any collector using such an early serial-numbered machine for a parts source, so I'd say it's a matter of damage to the original.

Now for #38595, I'm inclined to think a mandrel from something else was pressed-on the shaft. Maybe from an Amberola? Would that groove hold the anti-flutter device? If the machine were repaired after parts supplies were exhausted for Standards, the replacement with a different mandrel would make more sense. Of course, more recent tinkering in the last 50 years is also possible. The flat-sided pulley would be expected on a 4 Clip machine.

In both cases, if you did make a change, I'd note it and keep the replaced parts with the machine. If the machines otherwise are OK, I'd be inclined to live with them. It's kind of cool when the parts of a machine tell you a story.

Best Regards,
Martin

Martin,
I'm in two minds here. When I first saw 489, I decided that the mandrel looked wrong and I would change it.
I could swap the correct mandrel from 19488 (in excellent condition), which is after all a parts machine, and when everything is completed will just be a collection of parts.
No. 38595, the mandrel certainly does not look as though it has been tampered with. If you want I can send you a photo.
On the subject of shavers, do you know when the chute type was changed to the box?.
Regards,
Alistair.

Hi Alistair

A swap-out of mandrel assemblies makes sense between 489 and 19488. I'd simply document it on both machines and call it good. As far as 38595 goes, I have not noted a mandrel like that on any other Standard, or at least a quick check of my list doesn't reveal one. My suggestion was more to the idea that this was a late factory-supplied replacement, rather than a case of tampering. On the other hand, some people out there do very good work... Anyway, it's unusual and I'll be looking out for more of these in the future.

As far as the shaver issue goes, I mostly see the Box type shavers and only see a few chute-type Home shavers here and there (under 10 examples). That doesn't mean that some were not sent out with them originally, it just means that I haven't spotted a likely pattern of that yet. That's the joy of keeping data; the list of questions keeps growing.

Regards,

Martin

AT RISE:

Martinola enters the dining room and walks to the large table. The table is large enough for twelve, but is set for one with a covered dish. The rest of the table holds late Edison Standard Model A 4 clip machines, all with grooved mandrels. Martinola surveys the machines and sits at the table. A waiter enters and uncovers the dish of baked Crow in front of Martinola. They both blankly stare at it a moment, then look at each other.

Waiter: May I suggest a dry white wine to go with your, um... dinner?

Martinola: (clearing throat) I think I'd better have some strong coffee with this; it's going to take a while.

CURTAIN FALLS.

*** As an update, in the last few days I've discovered that the grooved mandrel was a feature that I've missed while noting very late 4 clip machines with the type 3 patent plate. I've now got two noted in my data sheet, waiting for serial number info on a third and have just spotted a grooved mandrel on a Suitcase Home from the same era on ebay. *sigh* Here's to learning something new every day!

- Martin

clevelander wrote:Andersun,
You learn someting new every day!

Me too! In the 36 years I have been collecting, I have never seen a grooved mandrel before and now I have to question the chute style swarf box on my very early 2 clip Standard!

Andersun wrote:

clevelander wrote:Andersun,
You learn someting new every day!

Me too! In the 36 years I have been collecting, I have never seen a grooved mandrel before and now I have to question the chute style swarf box on my very early 2 clip Standard!

You can't beat getting everyone scratching their heads.