The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

As a collector of over forty years on the UK side of the pond I fully endorse the comments on the folly of refinishing a machine's cabinet.
Here in the UK a machine which has been repolished, no matter how high a standard, is rendered virtually worthless.
I would never consider buying a phonograph/gramophone which was anything less than original (or able to be returned to original condition).
The only candidates for refinishing are machines which otherwise would be scrapped.
As a time served woodworker, I know that renovation of a finish is always preferable to a refinish.

Holy Smokes! We watch a movie, have some dinner and stop for ice cream, and when I come back, a brawl has erupted... Must be the hot weather. There's no need for this unpleasantness. I can vouch that this forum isn't comprised of "...a bunch of selfish know it alls" (unless it's me), and despite the bruises we've all suffered at the hands of e-commerce, there's no need to presume that I know Stocky1's motives.

Here are some photos of an Aeolian-Vocalion Model 900-2; quite similar to the 900-1 that started this thread. You'll see some differences in the cabinet, most noticeably the absence of a stretcher (as also shown in the catalog page illustrated). I couldn't find any original documentation for this model in my collection of catalogs and advertisements.

Note that the machine in the book illustrations (taken from Phonographs with Flair, by Fabrizio & Paul, used with permission) has been refinished (saving the original decals) and has had new green felt applied to much of the interior surfaces. Whether the machine originally had felt on these surfaces cannot now be ascertained without doing some surgery - illustrating the problems caused by "refinishing." I'd much rather have the original-condition machine currently in Stocky1's shop just as it sits, rather than the re-done example, nice as it is. The estimated value of the machine in the book ranged between $1000 - $2000. The book was published in 2001, and the market for big machines like this has softened a bit since then. Still, these fancy Aeolian-Vocalions were expensive machines in their day and not many survive. I hope you can convince the current owner to preserve it instead of refinishing it.

George P.

I saw one of these here in Australia years ago in my early years of collecting. It wouldn't be a one off but would be a scarce model.
Personally I'm partial to the brand as an Aeolian Vocalion was the first gramophone I ever bought.
Well made I reckon.

Stephen

Indeed: as has been mentioned, the interior needs no refinishing - so where is the need for repro decals?

The exterior might well be cleaned, and some careful re-amalgamation of the existing finish might improve its appearance, without detracting too much from its value. (And if the owner does not wish to sell it, does the market value matter that much?)

Bill (not a know-it-all, but a question-a-good-deal-of-it-all).

Lucius1958 wrote:Indeed: as has been mentioned, the interior needs no refinishing - so where is the need for repro decals?

The exterior might well be cleaned, and some careful re-amalgamation of the existing finish might improve its appearance, without detracting too much from its value. (And if the owner does not wish to sell it, does the market value matter that much?)

Bill (not a know-it-all, but a question-a-good-deal-of-it-all).

Stocky1,

Don't take the somewhat passionate advice your getting here as rudity. I fully agree with opinions expressed that this machine should not be refinished. If the owner feels something must be done, a careful cleaning and MAYBE reamalgamation would be more than sufficient. It is rare, (which does not always equate to value). I've never seen one in more than 30 years of collecting. Opinions on the price in current condition will always vary widely. Whatever that price is, even the most perfect refinishing job will significantly reduce the value, to near zero in my opinion, as it will no longer be of interest to 90% of previously potential buyers. Saying that is not being rude. It's being honest. I'd suggest you pass on that information to the owner.


Regards,
Válečník

For what it's worth, I've seen a well preserved example up close - there was no felt on the interior surfaces and no indication that there ever was one. I would say the example in the book has been tarted up.

estott wrote:For what it's worth, I've seen a well preserved example up close - there was no felt on the interior surfaces and no indication that there ever was one. I would say the example in the book has been tarted up.

I've suspected the same thing! I'd like to get a peek under all that felt...

George P.

phonogfp wrote:

estott wrote:For what it's worth, I've seen a well preserved example up close - there was no felt on the interior surfaces and no indication that there ever was one. I would say the example in the book has been tarted up.

I've suspected the same thing! I'd like to get a peek under all that felt...

George P.

I've seen pics of a few UK manufactured "Gramophones" on which someone applied felt between the case and the lid, probably to seal the sound in?

I also know of at least one Amberola 80 in NZ, that has newspaper papered around the outside of the horn, probably to deaden or soften the sound.

Not sure the difference would be noticeable in either case.

Some refinishers can't resist the urge to "Make it better than it was originally". I've seen machines with every screw head and fitting polished to a blinding luster, nickle plated when they should be plain steel, gold plated when they should be nickle, and gilding deployed where it shouldn't exist.

This sort of thing is almost required in the automotive line. It isn't enough to make a car look like it did coming off the assembly line, it has to be MORE!

I've been brought to nearly tears when some items on "American Restorations" have been stripped bear and blinged out. All character of the piece lost forever... Or until it gets another 100 years of age on it.