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Re: Victor VV-IX...new purchase
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:16 pm
by Uncle Vanya
phonojim wrote:Nice find. The tonearm back bracket is correct, but it is not complete. It is a 2 piece bracket and the top part is missing in your case. It is similar in concept, but not the same as a VTLA bracket. The pivot pin is also different than later styles. The pin is threaded and has a screwdriver slot at the top. A knurled locknut is used to lock it in adjustment. The upper piece slides over the lower one and locks in place with one or two screws.
The crank and escutcheon should be easy to find originals for. The crank is the common female threaded style of the time and the escutcheon is the common style from that era also.
Good luck with that machine. I had one just like that once, but it wasn't that important to me at the time, so it is long gone, but after seeing this thread I kind of wish I still had it.
BTW: be sure to replace that missing motor mount screw.
Jim
No.
Some of these machines were not fitted with an overhang support at all.
Whe the less expensive Victrolas were introduced in 1912 they used a simple pin which supported he tone arm from the underside. Victrola IX and X machines with this arrangement are not often seen, but are not unknown. Victrola IV and Vi machines with this arrangement are more commonly seen.
The rod on which the tone arm pivots swivel was prone to being bent, throwing the whole assembly out of alignment. After a short period a simple stamped overhang support was supplied. it was to until late 1913or early 1914 that all of these Macy's amount with a cast iron support.
Re: Victor VV-IX...new purchase
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:06 pm
by whoopinola
phonojim wrote:Nice find. The tonearm back bracket is correct, but it is not complete. It is a 2 piece bracket and the top part is missing in your case. It is similar in concept, but not the same as a VTLA bracket. The pivot pin is also different than later styles. The pin is threaded and has a screwdriver slot at the top. A knurled locknut is used to lock it in adjustment. The upper piece slides over the lower one and locks in place with one or two screws.
The crank and escutcheon should be easy to find originals for. The crank is the common female threaded style of the time and the escutcheon is the common style from that era also.
Good luck with that machine. I had one just like that once, but it wasn't that important to me at the time, so it is long gone, but after seeing this thread I kind of wish I still had it.
BTW: be sure to replace that missing motor mount screw.
Jim
Well this VV-IX has caused some questions...I dug a VV-IX out of the storage line..it's a slightly later built , 1913 machine , with a forward female crank....they surely changed a lot in the year that separated these two VV-IXs...I then dug out a VV-VIII of early construction..s/n 23441 , June 28/ 1911 date on the patent sheet underneath the machine...this machine has the identical tonearm mount as the early VV-IX...as both these machines are Canadian , can we assume that this is a Berliner only design?....as for the cranks , all machines had similar female cranks ..The 1913 American VV-IX's crank has a very slightly larger diameter hole than the cranks in the CDN 1912 VV-IX and VV-VIII....If I had paid attention to the VV-VIII , then this VV-IX wouldn't have foxed me so...thanks guys
Re: Victor VV-IX...new purchase
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:24 pm
by gramophone78
Well I'm not too surprised. Even a Victor horn elbow made in Canada will "NOT" fit a US made machine. It is too big in diameter to the back bracket. The "Canadian" part was made differently also.
Re: Victor VV-IX...new purchase
Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:53 pm
by phonojim
That's the part you need.
Jim
Re: Victor VV-IX...new purchase
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:26 am
by Uncle Vanya
whoopinola wrote:phonojim wrote:Nice find. The tonearm back bracket is correct, but it is not complete. It is a 2 piece bracket and the top part is missing in your case. It is similar in concept, but not the same as a VTLA bracket. The pivot pin is also different than later styles. The pin is threaded and has a screwdriver slot at the top. A knurled locknut is used to lock it in adjustment. The upper piece slides over the lower one and locks in place with one or two screws.
The crank and escutcheon should be easy to find originals for. The crank is the common female threaded style of the time and the escutcheon is the common style from that era also.
Good luck with that machine. I had one just like that once, but it wasn't that important to me at the time, so it is long gone, but after seeing this thread I kind of wish I still had it.
BTW: be sure to replace that missing motor mount screw.
Jim
Well this VV-IX has caused some questions...I dug a VV-IX out of the storage line..it's a slightly later built , 1913 machine , with a forward female crank....they surely changed a lot in the year that separated these two VV-IXs...I then dug out a VV-VIII of early construction..s/n 23441 , June 28/ 1911 date on the patent sheet underneath the machine...this machine has the identical tonearm mount as the early VV-IX...as both these machines are Canadian , can we assume that this is a Berliner only design?....as for the cranks , all machines had similar female cranks ..The 1913 American VV-IX's crank has a very slightly larger diameter hole than the cranks in the CDN 1912 VV-IX and VV-VIII....If I had paid attention to the VV-VIII , then this VV-IX wouldn't have foxed me so...thanks guys
First of all, your machine
Is not missing it's overhang support. 1912 production differs from later machines. MSecondly, the Victor firm changed their standard crank thread size from ¼" to 5/16" in 1913. Remaining stocks of ¼" cranks (and double cut gears) were subsequently worked off in the open horn line.
Note that your later machine has a cast iron horn, and the elevated motor. The metal motor mounting plate was introduced in 1913 so that the motor was raised ¾" in the cabinet, allowing space for the metal horn. The earlier machies just used a simple back bracket which led into a rudimentary horn with the motor suspended therein. This arrangement, which persisted longer in the Victrola IV, Vi, and VIII machines tended to amplify motor noise along with the music.
There is nothing particularly Canadian about this machine, save for the Berliner tag.
Re: Victor VV-IX...new purchase
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 8:00 pm
by whoopinola
Uncle Vanya wrote:whoopinola wrote:phonojim wrote:Nice find. The tonearm back bracket is correct, but it is not complete. It is a 2 piece bracket and the top part is missing in your case. It is similar in concept, but not the same as a VTLA bracket. The pivot pin is also different than later styles. The pin is threaded and has a screwdriver slot at the top. A knurled locknut is used to lock it in adjustment. The upper piece slides over the lower one and locks in place with one or two screws.
The crank and escutcheon should be easy to find originals for. The crank is the common female threaded style of the time and the escutcheon is the common style from that era also.
Good luck with that machine. I had one just like that once, but it wasn't that important to me at the time, so it is long gone, but after seeing this thread I kind of wish I still had it.
BTW: be sure to replace that missing motor mount screw.
Jim
Well this VV-IX has caused some questions...I dug a VV-IX out of the storage line..it's a slightly later built , 1913 machine , with a forward female crank....they surely changed a lot in the year that separated these two VV-IXs...I then dug out a VV-VIII of early construction..s/n 23441 , June 28/ 1911 date on the patent sheet underneath the machine...this machine has the identical tonearm mount as the early VV-IX...as both these machines are Canadian , can we assume that this is a Berliner only design?....as for the cranks , all machines had similar female cranks ..The 1913 American VV-IX's crank has a very slightly larger diameter hole than the cranks in the CDN 1912 VV-IX and VV-VIII....If I had paid attention to the VV-VIII , then this VV-IX wouldn't have foxed me so...thanks guys
First of all, your machine
Is not missing it's overhang support. 1912 production differs from later machines. MSecondly, the Victor firm changed their standard crank thread size from ¼" to 5/16" in 1913. Remaining stocks of ¼" cranks (and double cut gears) were subsequently worked off in the open horn line.
Note that your later machine has a cast iron horn, and the elevated motor. The metal motor mounting plate was introduced in 1913 so that the motor was raised ¾" in the cabinet, allowing space for the metal horn. The earlier machies just used a simple back bracket which led into a rudimentary horn with the motor suspended therein. This arrangement, which persisted longer in the Victrola IV, Vi, and VIII machines tended to amplify motor noise along with the music.
There is nothing particularly Canadian about this machine, save for the Berliner tag.
Thanks to all for their information , and for pointing out things that I should have known , but didn't....It's hard to see how anything that Victor did was an absolute...they seemed to use whatever parts they had on hand...last question...the VV-IX 1912 model that I just aquired has a ¼ in crank that just seems too long sticking out too far past the body of the machine...is this correct? ..if not , then what is it off of?....what 1912 Victor product would have used a crank of this size?
Re: Victor VV-IX...new purchase
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:46 pm
by Jerry B.
It's my opinion that the tone arm and bracket are complete and correct. As pointed out the crank escutcheon is not. I think the interesting feature is the open horn the transmitted music as well as motor noise. Victor didn't cut corners very often but this is proof that appearance over performance sometimes ruled. The IX was made for such a long time. If you collected each variant, you'd have a large collection. Jerry
Re: Victor VV-IX...new purchase
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:25 pm
by Duchesne
Oooh! I just picked up one of these recently too. My First Victor.
Mine is VV IX and the case is terribly cosmetically challenged.
Out of some 60-odd pics I made, I'll just post a few regarding this thread.