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What is YRMV ?
Jerry F Bacon

Retrograde wrote:
(Admin, if it's against the rules to post links to other boards, feel free to remove the link, but leave the text)

The only one I see a problem with no longer exists, so post away!

pictureroll wrote:What is YRMV ?
Jerry F Bacon

Your Results May Vary

estott wrote:I've tried honey locust too - if you let they get thoroughly dry they'll play through a record but the tone isn't good - I don't think they transmit sound very well.

I think a lot depends on the diameter and length of the particular thorn (just as with steel needles!). Of course, the length factor is fairly easy to control, but not so the diameter (mass). The thorns are not perfectly round in cross section, thus it is difficult to assess "thickness" beyond reasonable approximation (i.e., guesswork). Trying them was an interesting experiment for me, but as I said, I won't be converting any time soon!

I buy mine from a source in England - as far as I am aware, the only source for these other than looking for vintage packs on ebay or growing your own. As noted several times in other threads, thorns are only good for certain types of shellac - most of the discs produced in the 40s onwards will be damaged by thorns. Some old ones like cheap 20s pressings will be eaten away by thorns: Grey Gull is one of them, I found first hand, as I watched the grooves turn pale and the disc become a Gray Gull as the thorn played on.

CarlosV wrote:---most of the discs produced in the 40s onwards will be damaged by thorns.

An interesting and rather worrying comment ! What needles do you use to play such records ?

emgcr wrote:

CarlosV wrote:---most of the discs produced in the 40s onwards will be damaged by thorns.

An interesting and rather worrying comment ! What needles do you use to play such records ?

I've had the same experience as Carlos (add Cameo and Perfects to the list). Some fibers will do better than cactus needles, but even they can dig up some of the cheaper shellac discs. I seem to have much better luck with fiber / bamboo for some reason. Anything that I can't play acoustically (or won't for wear / value reasons) gets played on my modern system.

Sean

emgcr wrote:

CarlosV wrote:---most of the discs produced in the 40s onwards will be damaged by thorns.

An interesting and rather worrying comment !

I can believe it's true for many "good brand" records from America, but I've never had this problem with UK shellac pressings.

I don't subscribe to the idea that thorns and fibres do absolutely zero damage, but I think I know the kind of damage Carlos is talking about (friction increases, heat builds up, and the record is worn very aggressively?) and I've never seen this happen to UK 78s.

It may be that we remained behind the times. We certainly kept pressing very crackly discs (apart from Pye/Nixa) right up to the end of the shellac era - though by that time the vastly increased recording volume helped to hide the crackles on pop discs.

Cheers,
David.

My experience is exactly the same as David's. UK discs produced in the 40's can be played with thorns without noticeable wear, as well as most French and German pressings from the same period. US discs, however, are the opposite: red Columbia laminates are ok if in good shape (in their case it is the other around: unless the disc is close to pristine, the thorn gets dull halfway through the side), and Deccas are also ok, but Victors post-scroll label and ALL wartime and post-war small labels, like Continental, Atlantic, Dial etc do not withstand the thorn needle.

Discs from the 50's have other type of incompatibility with thorns, even when the shellac is resistant to the thorn: they usually are recorded too loud, and make the thorn go dull before the music ends.

On the question of which thorn I use, most are modern-made and sourced in England, but also vintage IM-brand thorns made in England, that I can find every now and then for sale in a nice looking top hat package.

CarlosV wrote:Discs from the 50's have other type of incompatibility with thorns, even when the shellac is resistant to the thorn: they usually are recorded too loud, and make the thorn go dull before the music ends.

I agree. In my experience, good quality UK discs seem generally to be manufactured from high quality shellac at this late stage but the volume is certainly sometimes too high for the average thorn needle to bear. A thin needle will help but, in many such cases, some of the recorded frequencies are lost. Better to play these records electrically I feel.