Brunswick phonographs get no respect

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mf77
Victor O
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by mf77 »

FellowCollector wrote: The higher end Sonora phonographs such as their Invincible model which I have in the collection also has a beautifully designed nickel plated motor that is lovely to look at in motion and extremely quiet running.
Yes, these better quality Swiss Paillard motors are indeed well designed and extremely quiet, and when compared to other motors, they are visually stunning. It almost seems a shame to have to apply grease & oil to the gears and bearing, but so far I've resisted the urge not to. :lol:
Keepin' it real.

phonomaven
Victor Jr
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by phonomaven »

Very interesting and specialized post Henry. Thanks. The gold standard in playback is of course to best approximate how the original was performed. However, it can be fun to play around with the speeds and such. No harm in that as you also agree.

Speaking of pitch and experimenting, the great American musician/composer and musical anarchist, Charles Ives, indulged and delighted in creatively re-arranging and mashing together popular music of (then) recent (mostly) American past into fascinating new and original tapestries of sound. I can imagine him taking a King Oliver record and playing it against a Stephen Foster melody like Old Folks at Home just for the fun of it :)
Henry wrote:The King Oliver number as heard here in playback is in the tonic key of A major (3 sharps)---a most improbable choice for any jazz piece, and especially for one in that era. Raising the turntable speed to bring the tonic up a half step to Bb major (2 flats) puts the number in a typical key for this kind of ensemble, where the main wind instruments (cornet, clarinet, trombone) are all also in Bb. In the case of cornet and clarinet, which are transposing instruments, they are really playing in C major, which sounds Bb major on a Bb instrument. And Bb is the "home" key, as it were, for the trombone as well, although it is not a transposing instrument. The Ted Weems number, as heard here, is in the tonic key of F# (5 sharps)---an even more unlikely key than the Oliver! Better raise it a half step to G (one sharp), which is more likely for a band reading from written arrangements. The piece would also work down a half step to F major.

The prior question to be answered here is whether the turntable is revolving at 78 rpm. If so, and these playback pitches are as heard, then the masters were not recorded at 78.

Certainly you may play a record at whatever speed suits you, but that may not be the correct speed as originally performed and recorded. As a general rule, jazz players improvising in small ensembles preferred keys with flats (major keys of F, Bb, Eb, and Ab, and their relative minors d, g, c, and f, respectively) to keys with sharps. This knowledge may serve as a useful guide to selecting an appropriate playback speed. Of course, you also would need a handy tone generator to ascertain a reference pitch, unless you are blessed/cursed with pitch recognition (so-called "absolute pitch").

The Brunswick Cortez sounds fabulous---thanks for posting!

JerryVan
Victor Monarch Special
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by JerryVan »

I also have a Credenza and a Cortez. Both sound fantastic, but not the same. While the Credenza has better low end, the Cortez seems much clearer and less muted on the high end. Honestly, I've enjoyed the sound of the Cortez so much that I haven't played the Credenza in quite a while.

BTW, there's a Cortez for sale right now on eBay. (A bit pricey however.)

James
Victor I
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by James »

marcapra wrote:I was just playing my Brunswick Cortez phonograph with a red Columbia reissue of Louis Armstrong's Hot Five with Earl Fatha Hines playing My Monday Date. Even though I was using a medium tone needle, the Cortez was really stunning in sound. My Cortez has a universal motor so no winding involved which is nice if you listen to a lot of records. You don't often hear much praise for Brunswick products, but the Cortez has a huge spruce horn which does a fine job of playing late 20s records like Louis Armstrong and his Hot Five or Hot Seven. I think the main reason for this is few have heard what a Cortez can do. I think it can easily rival the Credenza. I've told this story before but maybe some of you have not heard it. When I start the Cortez's turntable my TV turns off, both picture and sound. When the record ends shutting the motor off, my TV comes back on!!! No other phonograph of mine has ever done that! And no one has ever been able to explain it.
I have a Brunswick Panatrope Cortez and a Victrola Orthophonic Credenza, no doubt I like the sound of the Cortez compared to the Credenza. Here is a link of my Cortez article.

http://www.capsnews.org/apn2011-2.htm

James

John
Victor Jr
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by John »

phonomaven wrote: Speaking of pitch and experimenting, the great American musician/composer and musical anarchist, Charles Ives, indulged and delighted in creatively re-arranging and mashing together popular music of (then) recent (mostly) American past into fascinating new and original tapestries of sound. I can imagine him taking a King Oliver record and playing it against a Stephen Foster melody like Old Folks at Home just for the fun of it :)
Sorta like how a DJ will take two songs and create a mashup/remix via beatmatching? Also, Ives hated the phonograph and the radio, and never owned one, let alone two. He claimed that they made his head buzz and bothered his hearing :|

Dave D
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by Dave D »

When I start the Cortez's turntable my TV turns off, both picture and sound. When the record ends shutting the motor off, my TV comes back on!!! No other phonograph of mine has ever done that! And no one has ever been able to explain it.[/quote]

Are you suggesting something supernatural here?
Dave

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Henry
Victor V
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by Henry »

A correction to my post: the key of F sharp major has six, not five sharps! (B major has five sharps.) Brain f*rt.

phonomaven
Victor Jr
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by phonomaven »

Sorta like how a DJ will take two songs and create a mashup/remix via beatmatching? Also, Ives hated the phonograph and the radio, and never owned one, let alone two. He claimed that they made his head buzz and bothered his hearing :|


Didn't know he was that militant about it but it's not surprising. Most musicians of the time turned their noses up at the new sound "toys" and many loathed them, such as John Philip Sousa who penned a passionate and lengthy essay titled "The Menace of Mechanical Music" in 1906 for Appleton's Magazine:

http://explorepahistory.com/odocument.php?docId=1-4-1A1

phonomaven
Victor Jr
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by phonomaven »

Henry wrote:A correction to my post: the key of F sharp major has six, not five sharps! (B major has five sharps.)

Yeah, I was gonna call you out on that egregious error but decided not to ;)

phonomaven
Victor Jr
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Re: Brunswick phonographs get no respect

Post by phonomaven »

marcapra wrote:When I start the Cortez's turntable my TV turns off, both picture and sound. When the record ends shutting the motor off, my TV comes back on!!! No other phonograph of mine has ever done that! And no one has ever been able to explain it.
Are you suggesting something supernatural here?
Dave


Sounds like something out of a Poltergeist movie ;)

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