The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is an extremely good idea to make new cylinders of wax Amberols. The Amberol wax, I think has reached the end of its useful life,all of the oils, have evaporated making them vulnerable to any changes in temperature. I think that midwestern cylinders fare off worse than other areas of the country, we have such temperature changes very cold winter that little cracks multiply through those wax Amberols to the point where you open a box and have a puzzle. Someone living in California, or the South West would think me crazy when I tell them that Ediphone records in our illinois summers will fog and decompose in about a month after MAY due to our humidity, while Ediphone and dictation cylinders in California, will not show any signs of change because the temperature and humidity is more constant. What is nice is that in order to compensate for loss in transfer, one can boost the highs and lows enough where this is not noticed, and can even sound louder and fuller.

I agree with you Edisonphonowrks. The wax amberols should be among the first to be saved. If they are at least captured in the highest quality digitally, they can be put to cylinders later.

edisonphonoworks wrote:and can even sound louder and fuller.

Even boost the recording level to the new master.

Everyone likes loud cylinders.

Valecnik wrote:we have such temperature changes very cold winter that little cracks multiply through those wax Amberols

It is the same here in the UK; we have notoriously damp and cold weather which can lead to the surface of wax amberols sometimes resembling crazy-paving. That is why I think it is important to rescue the recordings on as many wax cylinders as we can before they deteriorate too much. I know the British Library in London is busy digitalising its collection of cylinders as well as their archives on other media which may also be prone to deterioration.

To come back to the CLPGS cylinders for a minute, they were actually re-recorded "flat" without any bass or treble boost. We made several different versions with various boostings both top and bottom but when it came to recording onto the master wax cylinder to make the molds, the "flat" recordings sounded the best. Maybe Edison knew a thing or two about recordings that we have forgotten in this digital age.

Regards

TW-W

Congratulations to the CLPGS for this very worthwhile project. More strength to your collective elbows ! Well done indeed.

How are you recording ?

What would be interesting is to record flat, a series of test tones, and some pink noise, and then, say from 6 feet away measure the output ?

Dave

I keep coming back to the fact that you can own & play a copy of an incredibly rare cylinder for a small portion of the price you'd pay for an original, (were you even able to find an original) and play it endlessly without fear of wear or breakage. Great for showcasing a machine too.

Valecnik wrote:I keep coming back to the fact that you can own & play a copy of an incredibly rare cylinder for a small portion of the price you'd pay for an original, (were you even able to find an original) and play it endlessly without fear of wear or breakage. Great for showcasing a machine too.

Thank you Valecnik, that is indeed one of the purposes of this project - to give collectors the opportunity to own a very rare recording that they can play and enjoy without fear of damage, as well as preserving these increasing rare recordings.

I fully accept that having a reproduction cylinder, however good it may be, is no substitute for owning the real thing but only having a modest income myself, this is an near I will ever likely get to possessing such rare records. The Sara(h) Bernhardt Grand Opera cylinder recently on Ebay, and noted elsewhere on this Forum, made $1,250 which goes to prove my, and Valecnik's, point.

All the best

Tim W-W

Dear Dave

With reference to your query we record cylinders using a tone arm running on an electrically driven Edison Standard top. The arm used for the first two CLPGS cylinders has a Stanton 500 cartridge with styli from Expert, tracking at about 4 grams. Recordings are lightly cleaned using Audition and Magix Audio Cleaning Lab. As Wagnerian says there is then the trial and error stage to decide which tone shape works best by making wax masters with Vulcan in Sheffield, and we have so far found that the best results coming from 'flat' (ie no treble or bass boost) recordings. The final waxes are then plated up by Vulcan to make the moulds from which the cylinders are produced, in the time honoured fashion.

This has been a fascinating project, and one which we would like to continue if there is continued demand.

If you would like details of the recording 'deck' please get in touch.

Keith

Hi Keith

If you record a set of tones or some pink noise, then replay them, what sort of response do you get ?

Thanks

Dave