The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

epigramophone wrote:I agree that the machine appears to be genuine.

Although the Nirona reflector is generally associated with small tinplate toy machines it was, according to the Christopher Proudfoot book "Collecting Phonographs and Gramophones", also used on larger machines by other manufacturers including Sterno and British Polyphon/Dulcetto.

There was a table model almost identical to the one pictured by Soundgen in the former EMI Collection, bearing the German Patent Numbers 299390 and 300262.

I do however share the misgivings about the transfer/decal. Not only has it been carelessly applied (it is not central) but would a European machine with the model name "England" have been branded as a phonograph rather than as a gramophone? I think not.

I think the transfer is right , England Phonograph for the American Market ? Americans always call all machines phonographs unless they were made by Victor and then they are Victrolas aren't they ? I've seen dozens of original transfers that were on really skewiff haven't you ? They were turned out very fast in their heyday !

The transfer being off-centre is neither here nor there (pun intended!) but whoever printed it obviously couldn't spell "manufactured"!

Somehow I doubt that the "England Phonograph" would have made much impact on the American market, but then we Brits have a history of thinking we know best what American buyers want.

Why would Americans have bought the Austin Atlantic which was an inferior clone of their domestic products? What they wanted was the MG and the Jaguar XK120, but I digress.........

Here are a couple of pictures, one of the motor and the give way that it is a frankenphone the back where there are 2 holes for a horn bracket ( I suppose)
Dave

Pity you didn't show the holes first !

sorry, just noticed them today.
Dave

Steve wrote:The transfer being off-centre is neither here nor there (pun intended!) but whoever printed it obviously couldn't spell "manufactured"!

I didn't see that , still a strange transfer and not one I have seen before and I've seen a lot from India , the land of misspelling !

That's an odd motor. Are there any numbers or letters indicated on it?
The cut-out for a back-bracket looks to be quite crudely cut and makes me wonder if THAT isn't the later modification by someone trying to make a horn machine with the base? I'm sure my BI base doesn't look like that. It's certainly very odd that someone would add a reflector more suited to a small child's toy gramophone to a substantial carved oak Columbia BI style cabinet, albeit without BI motor included. If anything, with those holes drilled through, you might've expected a more genuine looking Frankenphone with large horn attached.

I agree that given the holes to the rear of the cabinet are very obvious, it's a pity you hadn't disclosed this information a little earlier to us! One would have assumed that it was an otherwise perfect cabinet with nothing visible missing or altered on it when you initially posed the question. Whatever, it is a confusing find and no one knows really what it is either way. Or do they?