Were some recordings intentionally performed "under tempo"?

[Henry]

As I understand it, the original rerelease of Sweet Sue was truncated to bring it within the three minute range because, for the purpose of the album in which it was included, the Beiderbecke solo was the important part. There supposedly was a fuss raised by collectors and Columbia managed to get the whole 12" side onto a 10" side by lowering the volume level, especially the low frequencies and cutting at a higher groove pitch. It is a similar technique to that used when making 45 RPM EPs. Eps generally play quieter than their single selection counterparts for that same reason.
Victor did something similar and much more reprehensible when they cut Bunny Berrigan's "I Can't Get Started" from a 12" side to 10" for use on jukeboxes. In that case, they simply cut it off immediately after the vocal, thereby removing the fabulous trumpent solo that wraps up the side! Needless to say, the 10" Victor version is to be avoided at all costs.
Henry, thanks for explaining the term da capo, for not all of us are musically literate. For me, my formal musical education ended just a few months into fifth grade band, when I was compelled to admit that I hadn't a clue as to what was happening. I have learned a lot in over 40 years of jazz collecting, listening and reading but technical terminology still sails right over my head.

Jim

The album liner notes to Col. C-29 state that the "Sweet Sue" version in the album has the "elaborate introduction" omitted; however, Col. 45667 *does* have what I would call an "elaborate introduction," so there may be some confusion afoot there. Obviously, the only way to find out what's what is to compare the cut and uncut versions.

You're welcome, Jim (or "prego," as they say in Italy). If you want other musical terms translated, I'll give it a go. One of my first purchases as a serious young music student was a musical dictionary, which gives and defines musical terms in three languages (Italian, French, German). Unfortunately, few composers were considerate enough to write performance indications in English!

[Henry]

Opera arias are not uncommonly sped up to fit the side. Mainly to retain the text, I suppose.

Like this Victor side here: http://youtu.be/KMNUnuBOf4Y

That's mighty fast. Many, many others.

I've listened to the link above (Ponselle's rendition of the Willow Song, "Salce, salce," from Verdi's "Otello") and find nothing "mighty fast" about it. On the contrary, it's a beautifully sung, stylistic performance. Do you perhaps have a good example of an "sped up" aria?

[Wolfe]

I've listened to the link above (Ponselle's rendition of the Willow Song, "Salce, salce," from Verdi's "Otello") and find nothing "mighty fast" about it. On the contrary, it's a beautifully sung, stylistic performance. Do you perhaps have a good example of an "sped up" aria?

Of course it's a beautifully sung, stylistic performance, it's Ponselle. And the tempo is very fast.

She used to regularly complain in her later interviews about the practice of speeding up the tempo to fit the sides. She didn't like making records, generally.

I'll post some other examples if I feel like it.

[Henry]

Of course it's a beautifully sung, stylistic performance, it's Ponselle. And the tempo is very fast.

Ponselle is singing a cut version; the full scene runs about twice as long. But she is not, repeat, NOT, singing it "very fast." With all due respect, you are dead wrong.

[Wolfe]

Of course it's a beautifully sung, stylistic performance, it's Ponselle. And the tempo is very fast.

Ponselle is singing a cut version; the full scene runs about twice as long. But she is not, repeat, NOT, singing it "very fast." With all due respect, you are dead wrong.

Sorry to say it's you who are wrong, Henry.

A singer who is able to observe Verdi's markings will sing that piece more expansively, not being constrained by the time limitations of 78 records. And it goes on and on. it's one of those things we have to sometimes qualify, if we want to enjoy the artistry of the great singers and musicians of the past.

And wasn't this thread to do with "under tempo" ? We're dragging a bit.

[Henry]

I invite any and all, with the interest to do so, to compare this Ponselle recording with others, and decide for yourselves. I will categorically state here that no musician would describe the Ponselle rendition as "very fast."

[pughphonos]

Thank you all for contributing to this topic! Reading your remarks, it doesn't seem that intentional "recording under tempo" (to facilitate accurate passages--knowing that the record could always be sped up when played) occurred enough for people to know of it; whereas recording fast DOES seem to have all sorts of anecdotal support. The lone hope for evidence on "recording slow" rests with Epigramphone--who saw something printed somewhere--so we'll keep the door open to that possibility.

As for the whole Ponselle issue, you guys have got me interested now, and I'll check it out.

Ralph

[epigramophone]

Thank you all for contributing to this topic! Reading your remarks, it doesn't seem that intentional "recording under tempo" (to facilitate accurate passages--knowing that the record could always be sped up when played) occurred enough for people to know of it; whereas recording fast DOES seem to have all sorts of anecdotal support. The lone hope for evidence on "recording slow" rests with Epigramphone--who saw something printed somewhere--so we'll keep the door open to that possibility.

As for the whole Ponselle issue, you guys have got me interested now, and I'll check it out.

Ralph

I have at last rediscovered the link to this interesting theory. Make of it what you will!

www.sandybrownjazz.co.uk/forumjazzat78rpm.html

[CptBob]

That's very interesting. I must admit, reading this thread I was sceptical, and still am. It's interesting and plausible, but not proven. Clearly if it went on they all knew what was up and wern't talking about it.

[pughphonos]

Thanks, Epigramophone, for posting that link! You're right on: everyone can take it as they will. The theory (recording slow performances) is intriguing and makes sense (easier to produce accurate performances),and there are plenty of records out there that seem to suggest this was done. Also, the fact that nearly all phonographs before 1925 had speed knobs was a real factor in the recording/reproduction dynamic. But the scarcity of studio anecdotes/testimony is curious.

Ralph