The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I don't thinkany of the older phonographs track that accurately at all except for Edison's they are linear tracker so probably better trackers. I think if we put any modern cartridge alignment tools or using modern concepts they would be anywhere near accurate like tone arm length null points ect. but then they weren't considered important till fairly recently. I checked the tracking force on my machines and they all exceeded 100grams while my Garrard plays my 78's well with just 2-3grams. All said these records were meant to be played on these machines and even ones that look perfect have been played a few times on old machines and still sound lovely. I use a soft needle or bamboo and that is the best way unless you use a modern table to minimize wear. I also digitize them on my laptop put them on my MP3 player for the car and house also CD's as gifts. That way they are enjoyed all the time and gets more people interested in old time music. The Edison records I play all the time on my machine I also record them with a mic. and do the same. No real efficient way with my current setup to effectively play them electrically but I am working on it.
Cheers enjoy your records and music
Dwight

My approach is: Exhibition, use soft steel needle (only once), play anything/any era but vinyl, sit back, enjoy.

Henry wrote:My approach is: Exhibition, use soft steel needle (only once), play anything/any era but vinyl, sit back, enjoy.

Here Here! good approach!
Dwight

Thank you! Works for me

edisonplayer wrote:What about playing valuable 78's on a vintage machine.I played a Victor scroll label by Jelly Roll Morton's band on my Credenza.When I play records like that on a wind up I always use a NEW steel needle.edisonplayer

I don't have any really valuable records. Most of what I paid was probably 10-15$ for a center start Pathé. Otherwise I mostly buy in boxes. I still only use a new soft tone steel needle for every play. I tried bamboo needles, but most of my records wear them out too quickly.

Andreas

You have good taste if you like the Delmore Brothers! Vinyl 78s did start to made in the 1940s by some companies. Vogue records with the fancy pictures on them were vinyl. You would not play those with a steel needle! Early vinyl records are sometimes labeled with "unbreakable" or "made with vinylite" on them.

Orchorsol wrote:

De Soto Frank wrote:Some of the British HMV machines from the 1930's are considered to have the best tracking geometry among acoustic phonographs.

I'd be interested to hear if some models were accurate - my understanding (and some limited experience) is that HMV machines' tracking is poor compared to that of e.g. EMGs and Experts.

Uh-oh... I think I may have my British machines muddled.

The ones I'm thinking-of have the "flatted" elbows on the gooseneck of the tone-arm, and the diaphragm-plane of the sound-box is not perpendicular to the axis through the tone-arm mounting...

These are described in Eric Reiss's book... which I have loaned-out to a friend, so I can't look it up right now...


Hopefully someone will know what I'm trying to describe...

De Soto Frank wrote: Uh-oh... I think I may have my British machines muddled.

The ones I'm thinking-of have the "flatted" elbows on the gooseneck of the tone-arm, and the diaphragm-plane of the sound-box is not perpendicular to the axis through the tone-arm mounting...

These are described in Eric Reiss's book... which I have loaned-out to a friend, so I can't look it up right now...

These are the Columbia "plano-reflex" arms, but in the book, it's the HMV arms that have the bad tracking angles, with the early Decca portable having the best!

Phono48 wrote:

De Soto Frank wrote:

These are the Columbia "plano-reflex" arms, but in the book, it's the HMV arms that have the bad tracking angles, with the early Decca portable having the best!

That's the stuff I was trying to recall !!!

Thanks, Phono 48 !

As alluded to above with Vogue records, I wouldn't recommend using steel needles on any 78s made of atypical materials, including flexible brands like Hit of the Week, Goodson, Filmophone, early Duophones and the like. Picture discs are also risky; in my opinion, at least, it isn't worthwhile to play rare, attractive records on equipment that can damage them.

There is no single, magic cutoff date for when it's safe/not safe to play shellac 78s with steel needles. It depends on what individual companies used to press the records and the trial-and-error process of observing which labels show noticeable wear after being played on a wind-up.

-HA