The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Lucius1958 wrote:
I do not know about the availability of these adapters, but the eBay example can always be turned down to fit (or, if you do not have access to a lathe, some careful work with a file will do the trick).

Bill

Thanks Bill, I will keep this in mind.

52089 wrote:
If your Fireside has a horizontal carriage, it's probably a Model B, which is not geared to play 2 minute cylinders, in which case a Model C reproducer won't do you any good. The Fireside Model A was a 2/4 machine, but the Model B was 4 minute only. The ID plate on your machine will tell you which one you have.

It is definitely a Fireside Model A with the gearing for 2/4 minutes, but it has some odd things which aren't in accordance with what I've read about that model. For example the carriage and the Diamond reproducer. It also has a big, very original looking bracket on the back for a cygnet horn, and the 11-panel cygnet horn it came with is painted maroon and gold rather than black and gold. Again the paint work looks very original and there are some dents in it (although someone seems to have put on a Standard horn transfer on the back at a later date). Somewhere I read that the cygnet horns were normally painted black apart from in Australasia where they came in a few other colours, which makes sense as I'm in New Zealand. As the majority of my cylinders are Blue Amberol, the diamond reproducer was a major drawcard for me but I would like to listen to the Gold Moulded cylinders in my collection.

Here are some photos of the machine -

Small point but if you go down the path of getting a carriage which will take Model C or H reproducers you might check you have the right one. It is difficult to be sure from the photos but your machine looks like a Model B Standard. I believe the carriage for Standards Model D and higher is slightly different from models A-C. It will fit ok but the stylus will be at a slightly different place on the cylinder and playing the end of recordings might be a problem if you get the wrong one. Croakinfrog and Wyatt's will poijnt you in the right direction.

Hope this helps

Keith

Just an update on my Fireside...

Went to the shop where I bought the machine from today and asked the owner if he had any parts that came with it when he got it (can't believe I hadn't asked already). He pulled out a Model H reproducer in its box, and a spacer/adapter ring to fit into the horizontal carriage (the screw the adapter comes with is broken off halfway though). There is also another reproducer which has "K" stamped over the Model S label. Is this normal? The 4 minute sapphire is missing but I guess this doesn't matter as the H reproducer is in good condition. I bought the lot for $50. Scott

retro92 wrote:
There is also another reproducer which has "K" stamped over the Model S label. Is this normal?
Scott

I don't think so: at least my example is stamped "Model K - Combination". Perhaps the factory had run short of Model K weights at the time, and restamped some S weights?

Bill

What a nice little group of additional treasurers, and a super bargain at $50. As for the K over S, Edison seems to have been rather notorious about frugality from what I have read. If it was on the shelf it got repurposed if possible.

Clay

Just an idea, but maybe not what you are looking for... the cheapest way to play 2 minute cylinders with your diamond B reproducer, is to buy 2 minute "Indestructible" cylinders. I have gone this route, mainly because I don't like the music on Edison 2 minute cylinders and because wax cylinders are "destructible" - brittle and easily broken.

Curt A wrote:Just an idea, but maybe not what you are looking for... the cheapest way to play 2 minute cylinders with your diamond B reproducer, is to buy 2 minute "Indestructible" cylinders. I have gone this route, mainly because I don't like the music on Edison 2 minute cylinders and because wax cylinders are "destructible" - brittle and easily broken.

I'm not sure 2 minute Indestructibles would sound very good with a Diamond reproducer: after all, , it's only using a small portion of the groove.

Better to use the 2 minute stylus on the K.

Bill

Humm. Well, I have some 2 minute Indestructibles and they sound just fine with a Diamond B.

Clay

I was curious about "retro 92"'s strange reproducer weight, and asked Steven Medved whether this over-stamping done by Edison as an economy measure to use up parts, or if it were done by a third party after the original sale. He has given me permission to share his responses to my reproducer questions with the forum, so here is his response, with my edits in brackets for clarity.

"The Edison weights were machine stamped, the R came out in March 1911, I forget when the S came out. Edison made just under 31,000 of the R and S reproducers, I think the S joined in around [serial number] 13,000. The R and S [reproducers] always had pot metal tops; the first ones had nickel plated brass shoe adapters that allowed them to fit in the small carriage.

The K weights always had a thin nickel plating [whereas] the S [weights] had the regular plating. Edison made the C, H, and K [reproducers] after the [December 9, 1914 factory] fire and into the 1920's and was still selling them as late as the end of 1926.

"The upside down K [stamping was] not [done by] Edison; it is way too sloppy and does not match. [However,] [w]hen Edison stopped making the R and S, he did have some large [reproducer] tops he [had] stamped left over. The O and N share serial numbers; the N joined in around 22,000. The R and S shared serial numbers. [Serial numbers in the] 70,000 [range] on the N top was made at the same time as [serial numbers in the] 31,000 [range] on the R and S . You will find the N-56 with R and S serial numbers in the 31,000 range. Since Edison had tops left over I am certain he used up all the rest of the parts. Even if not, the [over-stamped] S weight is way too sloppy to have been done by him.

"Edison did overstamp ID plates on the later Standards. You will find [Standard Model] D ID plates made into F and G ID plates. He put an X over the D [when repurposing the ID plates]. By then he just wanted to use up the spare parts. [Similarly,] [t]he Amberola 60 and 80's were made to get rid of spare DD cabinets and Amberola parts."

victorIIvictor wrote:
"The upside down K [stamping was] not [done by] Edison; it is way too sloppy and does not match. [However,] [w]hen Edison stopped making the R and S, he did have some large [reproducer] tops he [had] stamped left over. The O and N share serial numbers; the N joined in around 22,000. The R and S shared serial numbers. [Serial numbers in the] 70,000 [range] on the N top was made at the same time as [serial numbers in the] 31,000 [range] on the R and S . You will find the N-56 with R and S serial numbers in the 31,000 range. Since Edison had tops left over I am certain he used up all the rest of the parts. Even if not, the [over-stamped] S weight is way too sloppy to have been done by him.

"Edison did overstamp ID plates on the later Standards. You will find [Standard Model] D ID plates made into F and G ID plates. He put an X over the D [when repurposing the ID plates]. By then he just wanted to use up the spare parts.

It sounds like Edison was a one-man factory!

George P.