The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Starkton wrote:

phonogfp wrote:"The Multiplex can be converted in an instant into A GRAPHOPHONE GRAND OF TRIPLE SIZE by using only one reproducer to cover the entire length of the cylinder. Special records may be had which will thus give a reproduction ten minutes long." - from a period flyer.

Thank you George, this is convincing. What is the (estimated) playing time of Charley's cylinder?

I don't know, as it was not completely restored when the DVD was made (2010). Clay, did they address this on the DVD? It's been a year or so since I've viewed it.

George P.

Hello everyone,

The multiplex record of Charley's was completely reassembled. A few hundred pieces in all, put together like a giant puzzle. I have photos on the completed record, which I'll post tomorrow. The duration of the record was just about 3 minutes. It was all "The Old Oaken Bucket" Blahhh. As I recall it was all one continuous track. There's another record yet to be assemble, that is only slightly larger than a regular concert cylinder. It is also in pieces but had two track on it. I actually just returned to college this evening after two day at Charley's. We discovered in his basement a piece from the Columbia archives that will accept this record, and have a carriage ment to handle two recorder, or two reproducers. If your planning on being at Charley's open house on Saturday, you'll see that machine, as well as two Columbia Pantagraphs, lined up in a recently vacated spot in his collection.

Regards,
Aaron

As promised, here's a few photos, from before and after the rebuild. Never in my life have I been so afraid of holding a cylinder record!

Aaron

phonogfp wrote:

Starkton wrote:

phonogfp wrote:"The Multiplex can be converted in an instant into A GRAPHOPHONE GRAND OF TRIPLE SIZE by using only one reproducer to cover the entire length of the cylinder. Special records may be had which will thus give a reproduction ten minutes long." - from a period flyer.

Thank you George, this is convincing. What is the (estimated) playing time of Charley's cylinder?

I don't know, as it was not completely restored when the DVD was made (2010). Clay, did they address this on the DVD? It's been a year or so since I've viewed it.

George P.

On the DVD, it was indeed "The Old Oaken Bucket," taking up the first quarter or so of the cylinder, with that portion running maybe 2 or 3 minutes. The rest was not yet playable. The fellow doing the restoration (Michael Khanchalian) hoped he would be able to get it fully playable within the next year, but I don't know if that was accomplished or not. Goodness knows it would not be easy.

Somewhere in the course of the presentation they said what they calculated the final plying time for the whole thing might be, but I don't recall for sure what it was. I'm thinking maybe 12 minutes. When I get time I will go back and see if I can find it on the DVD.

Clay

P.S. Also got and watched the DVD from the 2013 APS meeting and found the presentation about building the "National Jukebox" very interesting.

Aaron: Holy Cow! A 3-dimensional jigsaw puzzle! It hardly seems possible, but there it is, pieced together like an ancient Greek vase. In the blank areas that fill in the missing bits, are those areas grooved, or left plain? I have wanted to try my hand sometime at filling in pitted wax cylinders and have wondered how the cylinder doctor fills and evenly smooths the area level so the stylus will track over the blank area without skipping. I am slowing amassing the tools I'll need to try my hand - I just bought a stereo microscope that clamps to the edge of a table or stand so that the entire surface of any size disk or cylinder can be examined with ease as I will attempt to make repairs. I will next build a cradle to hold the cylinder steady and securely under the microscope. The cradle will even have hand rests, rather like a doctor's dissecting microscope.

If ever there needs to be blanks for this, if people are willing to help I would be glad to make records for this machine.

OK gang, I have watched the portion of the DVD dealing with the cylinder again. It is 6 ½" in diameter, 100 groves per inch, and plays at 120 to 125 rpm. They thought it might play in total about 7 ½ minutes at this speed. The length was never stated that I caught.

Columbia had advertised that 10 minutes was possible, but the would necessarily be at a slower speed than used to record this one; maybe 80 rpm they thought.

Clay

VintageTechnologies wrote:Aaron: Holy Cow! A 3-dimensional jigsaw puzzle! It hardly seems possible, but there it is, pieced together like an ancient Greek vase. In the blank areas that fill in the missing bits, are those areas grooved, or left plain? I have wanted to try my hand sometime at filling in pitted wax cylinders and have wondered how the cylinder doctor fills and evenly smooths the area level so the stylus will track over the blank area without skipping.

Indeed, amazing talent was executed here! The blank areas, I believe, are just smooth, with no grooves, which makes tracking a big issue, and how he gets these areas flush with the surface of the cylinder, is something I can not even guess at the logistics of. I have somewhere in an email, an MP3 file of the entire recording. Being that only the tops works of the machine is present, it was connected to an electrical motor so steady speed. And the MP3 file was made using a microphone, with someone holding and tracking a reproducer by hand across the groove. If I can find the file anywhere, I'll try and post it. The more I think of it, perhaps the recording was around 6 or 7 minutes, but certainly no longer. The most amazing part about this project, is that the cylinder was completely reconstructed WITHOUT the machine. The Cylinder Doctor had no form, or guide to place the piece on during reconstruction. When the machine and cylinder were finally mated, it fit like a glove! Mike is truly an artisan.

Aaron

Mike is an artisan.

He repaired a rare cylinder for me that was missing a piece on one end which was about the size of a thumbnail. After filling it, Mike grooved it by hand (this was done at the Union show) so that it tracks perfectly. Since it is a spoken word record playing at 160 rpm, the blank spots (which are at the end) are virtually unnoticeable.

George P.

Although there has been frequent reference to this "Multiplex" machine, there is also some apparent confusion. The one on the DVD was a transitional experimental model (with a shorter mandrel).

The original Multiplex (triple-stereo), one of which was sold to the Shah of (then) Persia (now Iran) had cylinders much longer than "Old Oaken Bucket." [which was patiently restored]. The commercial Multiplex cylinder was 14 inches long, but the one on the DVD ("Bucket") is only 9 inches in length. Quite a difference...

The surviving Reproducer Carriage appears to have been exhibited [later] at the Columbia Display in the 1904 St Louis World's Fair. The 3 (removable) reproducers on the unit were updated by American Graphophone to the (louder) AW style. The positioning of the reproducers (one rigidly, 2 laterally adjustable to each track), which is original, agrees with the original cylinder-length of 14 inches. I don't think anyone has ever seen/found such a cylinder in the wild, but perhaps it may still be in Teh(e)ran (it was described in an old issue (2006) of Sound-Box AP). The original sales delivery involved some 32 barrels of cylinders, but only 12 pre-recorded were included in the list-price of $1000. The device was invented by Thomas Macdonald in 1898, becoming US Pat 711,706 in 1902, and was publicly displayed and advertised in 1900 and 1904. When the Shah personally visited the Paris Fair (on July 29, 1900), he was smitten and placed his order, delivered in 1901, partly transferred on the backs of camels.

Allen