The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

YES! I've never heard any HMV / Victor / Columbia / Edison records that sound anywhere near as good as most of my Pathés do on a decent Pathé machine ie any Pathé machine with a good rebuilt soundbox.

I agree that the quality can be inconsistent, but the same can be said of Edison and others.

The general rule with centre start Pathé discs is the larger the diameter, the louder and clearer the sound. I was playing a few last week, and was reminded that the most noticeable defect on some discs is the noise of the dubbing machinery.

larryh wrote:
Yes I agree that the later Edison acoustic disc probably trump the sound of the other brands. I may be overly picky, but to my ear the acoustic versions of many edison pieces are more satisfying to hear than the electric version of the same selection. Most of the electric pressings of classical things have a distant quality in many places and lack the up front excitement they managed to capture acoustically.

Larry

I think Victor wanted to capture the reverberant quality of a large hall and that distant quality was part of it. With ensembles like the Victor Concert Orchestra and the Salon Group everything is very clear and distinct.

epigramophone wrote:I agree that the quality can be inconsistent, but the same can be said of Edison and others.

The general rule with centre start Pathé discs is the larger the diameter, the louder and clearer the sound. I was playing a few last week, and was reminded that the most noticeable defect on some discs is the noise of the dubbing machinery.

Which is really apparent on modern hi-fi equipment. The antique machines of course mask some of it.

I asked Ron Dethlefson about the superb sound that I was hearing coming out of the little curved horn. Ron as you know is a world expert on Edison having written all those books on the Edison blue Amberols and the Pathé book in 1999. He told me "yes, Pathé did have the best sounding records and phonographs along with the Edison DD machine in the acoustic era." Granted, I know that there are many Edison and Pathé discs that could only be described as fair to poor.

I'm far from experienced in the world of Pathé vertical records, but I will offer that this is a complex subject, and I think it is difficult to divorce critique of the recording quality from the performance quality and / or the selection being considered.

I have a few center-start Pathé discs, which I have played on modern equipment, some less-than-memorable classical titles performed by the Ackroyd Trio.(violin, cello, piano ?)

I couldn't tell you about the recording quality of the discs, mostly because the performance itself was so out-of-tune that I couldn't focus on anything else !

I don't think ANY of the major labels would have made this group sound "good", I don't care how good their process was.

Perhaps someday I'll invest in a sapphire, and try these discs on my Brunswick Ultona, or bodge a Victor motor into my Pathéphone VII and play them on an acoustic machine, and give them another audit, but that experience has not inspired me to collect Pathé discs.

So, there you have a point of view from a "classical music snob"

De Soto Frank wrote:I'm far from experienced in the world of Pathé vertical records, but I will offer that this is a complex subject, and I think it is difficult to divorce critique of the recording quality from the performance quality and / or the selection being considered.

I have a few center-start Pathé discs, which I have played on modern equipment, some less-than-memorable classical titles performed by the Ackroyd Trio.(violin, cello, piano ?)

I couldn't tell you about the recording quality of the discs, mostly because the performance itself was so out-of-tune that I couldn't focus on anything else !

I don't think ANY of the major labels would have made this group sound "good", I don't care how good their process was.

Perhaps someday I'll invest in a sapphire, and try these discs on my Brunswick Ultona, or bodge a Victor motor into my Pathéphone VII and play them on an acoustic machine, and give them another audit, but that experience has not inspired me to collect Pathé discs.

So, there you have a point of view from a "classical music snob"

Don't dismiss Pathé until you have heard some good records. Here is a direct link to a 14" center-start Pathé that I posted to this website a while back:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/downlo ... p?id=23617

You see can a picture how I sometimes play Pathé records on an Edison DD:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=14846

An external horn does wonders for sound reproduction too!

VintageTechnologies wrote:

Don't dismiss Pathé until you have heard some good records. Here is a direct link to a 14" center-start Pathé that I posted to this website a while back:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/downlo ... p?id=23617

Nice enough: but to my ears at least, it isn't a patch on a good DD…
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1gbj7 ... orch_music

Bill

Lucius1958 wrote:

VintageTechnologies wrote:

Don't dismiss Pathé until you have heard some good records. Here is a direct link to a 14" center-start Pathé that I posted to this website a while back:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/downlo ... p?id=23617

Nice enough: but to my ears at least, it isn't a patch on a good DD…
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1gbj7 ... orch_music

Bill

I agree and believe Edison was the overall best. The Diamond Disc recordings were technically superior - a more refined sound, better fidelity, neutral acoustic ambiance, but for years they were plagued by a greater surface noise even when new. I often find a Blue Amberol dubbing to be more listenable due to a quieter surface, even though the fidelity wasn't quite as good.

To my ears the best acoustically recorded discs were the Odeon's (German, French and English) and its subsidiary Fonotipia. Their best recordings of both opera singers and orchestral pieces are much better than the best Pathé's, Victor's and Edison's. Some of their operatic records done in 1902-1906 can match up in terms of balance and clarity even to early electric recordings of the mid-20s.