The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Eric wrote, "Mahogany can be a tricky wood to work with - it is less forgiving than oak, tends to split along the grain and dents more easily."

So… are Edison outside horn cylinder machine cases made of solid wood, whether oak or mahogany? And if so, does the fact that solid wood, rather than veneer, is being used make a given phonograph case maker more reluctant to produce mahogany cases, because of the properties you mention? Or do these properties make the number of surviving mahogany cases far fewer than surviving oak cases?

After all, mahogany case uprights and consoles far outnumber oak ones, and I have been led to believe that this was a consumer preference, and so cabinet makers produced mahogany phonograph cabinets no matter how tricky the wood was/is to work with. And yet with outside horn cylinder machines (at least Edison ones) consumer preference seems to have been for oak. I don't understand this change in consumer preference… it seems strange that it should be based on the type of machine sold.--Mark

I have been trying to learn the different types of wood. I found this site http://www.wood-database.com/wood-artic ... ion-guide/ maybe someone with more experience can give a cliff note version for us newbies.

victorIIvictor wrote:Eric wrote, "Mahogany can be a tricky wood to work with - it is less forgiving than oak, tends to split along the grain and dents more easily."

So… are Edison outside horn cylinder machine cases made of solid wood, whether oak or mahogany? And if so, does the fact that solid wood, rather than veneer, is being used make a given phonograph case maker more reluctant to produce mahogany cases, because of the properties you mention? Or do these properties make the number of surviving mahogany cases far fewer than surviving oak cases?

After all, mahogany case uprights and consoles far outnumber oak ones, and I have been led to believe that this was a consumer preference, and so cabinet makers produced mahogany phonograph cabinets no matter how tricky the wood was/is to work with. And yet with outside horn cylinder machines (at least Edison ones) consumer preference seems to have been for oak. I don't understand this change in consumer preference… it seems strange that it should be based on the type of machine sold.--Mark

There were a couple of things going on during the first two decades of the 20th century that should be taken into account. First, public preference was shifting to a general liking for darker wood (color - not species). This is why Edison cabinets (which were all solid wood for the external-horn models) went to a green oak finish in 1901 and then to an even darker "Antique Oak" finish in 1905. The Victrola was introduced in 1906 and was at first available only in mahogany veneer. When oak became available a couple of years later, it was advertised as suitable for clubs or lodges. Public preference was clearly shifting generally toward darker wood - - but remember, oak could and was made darker. During this 1900-1910 period, Edison cabinets for external-horn models could be special-ordered in mahogany, but this was an $8.00 option for the Standard and Home. That was a lot of added cost for a $20 or $30 machine; a larger proportional additional cost than ordering a Circassian Walnut cabinet for a Victrola XVI!

So public preference at that time didn't necessarily change from "oak" to "mahogany," but rather from "light" to "dark." Victrolas (and virtually all upright models from various manufacturers) were constructed from veneers - not solid wood. For that reason, Victrolas in mahogany cost no more than Victrolas in oak. And not all oak was light. Victor offered several different oak finishes and only a couple of them were light; most were dark (Flemish Oak was black!).

In short, keep in mind the difference between solid wood cabinets and veneer, and the general shifting of preference from light to dark. The species of wood probably mattered less to many buyers than its color.

George P.

For the consumer from the 1890's until the 'teens, Oak was very popular in middle class homes. That included phonographs. During the 'teens and the popularity of the internal horned machines, consumer taste switched to Mahogany. That's why cabinet floor models were common in Mahogany and scarce in Oak.
Harvey Kravitz

Thank you, George and Harvey! That helps my understanding. I figured my question was simplifying things too much, but I was not aware of the points you brought up. For me, this thread had the perfect heading: "Huh?"

Best wishes, Mark

As a collector I want what was seldom sold. I want my Victrolas in oak, or better yet, circassian walnut. I want my Edisons in mahogany with a decorated or nickeled deck. If a really really nice Columbia BF is worth $700, what is an electric BF worth? Jerry

In addition to George's excellent background piece, I might add that oak was a common domestic wood, easily obtained. Mahogany was an exotic tropical wood brought it by ship, a more costly business 100+ years ago than now. A Triumph Model D(1), for example, with a mahogany case was $20 extra--a third more. ($20 in 1908 is about $500 in today's money.) And of course when the machines were new, unlike now when the shellac has turned black with age and obscured it, the color and graining were stunning, making the mahogany cases stand out from the pack.

Clay

Jerry B. wrote:As a collector I want what was seldom sold. I want my Victrolas in oak, or better yet, circassian walnut. I want my Edisons in mahogany with a decorated or nickeled deck. If a really really nice Columbia BF is worth $700, what is an electric BF worth? Jerry

I understand that, scarcer and therefore more interesting. But following that logic, Victor Electrolas were made in much smaller numbers, so shouldn't we all collect Electrolas instead of Victrolas? But it seems that Electrolas are often cheaper now and have a hard time getting sold.

Andreas

alang wrote:

Jerry B. wrote:As a collector I want what was seldom sold. I want my Victrolas in oak, or better yet, circassian walnut. I want my Edisons in mahogany with a decorated or nickeled deck. If a really really nice Columbia BF is worth $700, what is an electric BF worth? Jerry

I understand that, scarcer and therefore more interesting. But following that logic, Victor Electrolas were made in much smaller numbers, so shouldn't we all collect Electrolas instead of Victrolas? But it seems that Electrolas are often cheaper now and have a hard time getting sold.

Andreas

I think perhaps in many collectors minds, including mine I suppose, an era dividing line is crossed with electrification. I suppose in another 50 or 100 years electrified machines of the 20s will seem as antique as crank machines do now.

Clay

alang wrote:

Jerry B. wrote:As a collector I want what was seldom sold. I want my Victrolas in oak, or better yet, circassian walnut. I want my Edisons in mahogany with a decorated or nickeled deck. If a really really nice Columbia BF is worth $700, what is an electric BF worth? Jerry

I understand that, scarcer and therefore more interesting. But following that logic, Victor Electrolas were made in much smaller numbers, so shouldn't we all collect Electrolas instead of Victrolas? But it seems that Electrolas are often cheaper now and have a hard time getting sold.

Andreas

I think part of it is that the average collector can learn to do most repairs on a Victrola themselves. an Electrola is a very different matter.