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OK, being a total novice in this area, what is an advance ball and how does it function?

Clay

FloridaClay wrote:OK, being a total novice in this area, what is an advance ball and how does it function?

Clay

An advance ball is a smooth round sapphire ball that rides ahead of the cutter stylus on the smooth wax and keeps the cutter stylus a fixed distance away from the wax surface. With this technique, you can put more pressure on the cutter stylus, allowing for a deeper/louder cut but not cut too deep, the heavier weight would keep the cutting stylus from bouncing on loud passages thus creating excessive distortion. The advance ball keeps the cutter stylus at a precise distance ensuring a precise cut of equal depth regardless of the loudness or softness of the music being recorded.

This type of wax recorder generally was mounted in a fixed carriage that was height adjustable in relation to the wax surface (certainly that was the case for the Edison disc recordings). A home recorder, without advance ball, is pivoted and rides on the wax with its own weight alone, and can adapt to different thicknesses of cylinder blanks, which would occur with multiple recordings and shaving down.

Phototone wrote:

FloridaClay wrote:OK, being a total novice in this area, what is an advance ball and how does it function?

Clay

An advance ball is a smooth round sapphire ball that rides ahead of the cutter stylus on the smooth wax and keeps the cutter stylus a fixed distance away from the wax surface. With this technique, you can put more pressure on the cutter stylus, allowing for a deeper/louder cut but not cut too deep, the heavier weight would keep the cutting stylus from bouncing on loud passages thus creating excessive distortion. The advance ball keeps the cutter stylus at a precise distance ensuring a precise cut of equal depth regardless of the loudness or softness of the music being recorded.

This type of wax recorder generally was mounted in a fixed carriage that was height adjustable in relation to the wax surface (certainly that was the case for the Edison disc recordings). A home recorder, without advance ball, is pivoted and rides on the wax with its own weight alone, and can adapt to different thicknesses of cylinder blanks, which would occur with multiple recordings and shaving down.

Thanks!

Clay

Time for me to chime in. Very nice work Shawn! I have yet to find the time to get one of these working. You bought the recorder from me at the show. I bought all of these in hopes that I would some day find them a home in the hands of a collector that would truly appreciate them for what they are, and make them whole once more. Normans also came from this lot.

Also below you can all see a picture of carriage, also from the factory, used to accepted these recorders. And the large hunk of brass you see is what would be called a "fader" so that the studio attendant could nicely transition into, or out of the piece being recorded. The two brass plates allow sound through when lined up, and slowly cut it off when slid past one another.


And one photo shows the whole lot when I bought them. Now much more sparse, as I have found many of them homes in the hands of collectors, and a few museum. Some of the heads you will noticed are "Blanks" cast, but never milled out. There are many variations, some of brass, some of aluminum. There are also a few "cup" like pieces that fit into some of the heads, onto these a diaphragm would have then bee attached. A few of the recorders also have no lead ball, or adjustment. They are simply floating recorders.

I wish I had a history on these pieces, but the collection I bought them from was that of a collector who had passed away, and his children have been selling it off piece by piece. So the story of how they came out of the factory, is lost to time I'm afraid.

Aaron

Aaron,Wow there is a lot of varieties and differences. I see some still have some of the dampening materials attached, does it seem like a red rubber type material. The last original diaphragm on no. 3 that I have is a spot of bees wax, that is just off the diaphragm area. I will eventually make some improvements to the carriage I made, as I have the horn brass tube fixed while another is articulated so the recorder can float on the record surface, but I do need to make one smoother, precision, one that will be more reliable, however the setup I made works pretty smoothly! I really think this set is from Edison's Recording laboratory, and the story goes that only Mr. Edison and 3 other individuals were allowed to use these recorders, and they were Edison, Walter Miller, Fred C Burt, and George Werner. I am going to study the set very carefully, and make video documentation of any progress I make in quality.

Aaron, I hoped you finally open up to officially document the complete lot. Things like these are the reason why I like the east coast shows so much. It is so close to the original factories and that still appears to be an advantage for finding real specialties.

Utterly fascinating. Amazing how many studio recorders " escaped". I might add one thing about the viscous damping. I believe that Reed and Welch got it a bit wrong when they said that the diaphragm floated on a viscous fluid. THere may have been a diaphragm mounting like this but what I've seen in patent drawings is that the post-like connection between the diaphragm and the recording stylus was set in a glob of a viscous material at each end.... Isn't there a patent diagram in either the Dethlefson book or that of George Frow? I'm talking off the top of my head here, so I'll do a little digging later. In the bookshelves, not the top of my head.
Aaron , in that amazing photo I believe the diamond disc recorders are those with the large mounting holes at the top right, are they not? The cylinder recorders had a smaller opening from those I've seen in pictures. The MAPS journal had an amazing article a couple of years ago illustrating many of the recording heads and machines from the Edison National Historic Site.


Jim

Better photos of the studio recorder, and other record making items. I don't think there is any other place at the current time, where you can actually record with an original studio recording head, that makes phonogram blanks on site just like Edison did. This is the recording room at Borri Audio Laboratories. I have done experiments with mica, glass, and paper diaphragms. This diaphragm is the most sensitive so far two step mica. I will be making full size diaphragms that go to the outer ring, and see how they sound. The stylus bar is heald to the center of the diaphragm with bees wax, and liquid latex used to attach the diaphragm to the gasket, and to stick the diaphragm to the body, and bees wax over the edge to dampen for better HF response. A wire holds the back of the cutting stylus to the body. I am happy to annouce that the liquid laytex seals air tight, but will allow changes of diaphragms easily, I even removed the glass diaphragms without breaking them!!! Glass performed well, but 8 thousandths all the way across is thick for this studio recorder, so very loud spls needed to record well. something like 3 thousandths glass would work really well and be able to record violins. which I have yet to record strongly. I use human voice, cornet, harmonica and violins for tests.

Doesn't the Edison Historic Site (not sure of name) do recordings with your blanks, using studio-type recorder? If not, what do they use?

Thomas Edison Historical Park buys from everyone including Me, Chuck Richards and Paul Morris. To my knowledge the Studio recorders are for museum display only. An Edison Home is used to make recordings with home recorders at this time. I hope someday Edison NHP can make a duplicate of there studio recording machines for wax cylinder recording? Master cylinders are not actually shaved straight across so as the angle changes the advance ball is adjusted slightly as the recording progresses to maintain and even depth of cut, the skill in doing this is a learning experience for sure. I have been working also at listening and looking for the correct depth of cut, with the naked eye this is very difficult, that is why the original machines have microscopes mounted to them.